Beware of barcelona motors bangkok!!!!!!

Discussion in 'BMW Bikes In Thailand' started by HIKO, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. HIKO

    HIKO Ol'Timer

    HI ALL BMW LOVERS AND OTHERS

    First I thought I will keep this info for myself and loose my money in silence. One reason for my lack of Power to fight Barcelona Motors/ BMW and to go public with this matter is that during the last two years the doctors here in Pattaya have been too interested in my stomach, making 4 surgeries trying to take away no necessary "items" in my stomach. My last surgery left me with 40 stitches in my stomach and every time I have to stay in bed without moving a few weeks, I loose the few muscles I still have/had left and that means that you have to learn how to walk again, how to conduct your toilet visits etc. Of course your physical condition also affects you mentally and a "BMW here or there" is not the most important question in Your life. Being sick a long time will make you get exhausted already when trying to send a email not to talking about keeping up a discussion on internet. I am also "on the run" from the hospital here in Pattaya/Banglamung and we have agreed that they send a ambulance without delay to pick me up if needed. That is why I haven"t liked to go to Bangkok and Barcelona Motors to "fight them personally".

    When Barcelona Motors behavior started to to make me angry I tried to find some other persons who had experienced the same but on Internet was nothing really bad aat that time about Barcelona Motors. I found finally one email on GT board where " Charmaz " was complaining about how dirty Barcelonas new Workshop was, a thing I also noticed myself when I visited them one year ago in wheel chair. Of course I know many dirty shops in Thailand that can be very skillful but YOU DO EXPECT SOMETHING ELSE FROM AN AUTHORIZED BMW WORKSHOP ESPECIALLY TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE PRICE LEVEL AT BARCELONA MOTORS. Enclosed "ATTACHMENT NR 1" you can find the "Charmaz" story.

    Then then started to be more and more bad stories about Barcelona Motors on the GT Board, some people didn't like that it was not "first hand information". Since I had first hand experience I once again decided that I contribute to the thread. Unfortunally I fell down with my wheel chair one day while writing it, when I tried to get to my computer and got some cracks to a few ribs, so my project was delayed again, but here I come again...

    What is most interesting for me is of course that I want my bike back, even in the same condition as I left it, without any payments but from a broader perspective it is interesting to find out is this just "one bad guy" in Chang Mai or is it a "company philosophy". Taking into account my experience from Bangkok it seems that it is the later. It would also be interesting to know why the companies' management don't do anything to stop this illegal behavior from their employees? Or is there some "kick backs" paid up in the organization or maybe it is an unofficial extra salary accepted by the management

    ANYHOW IT IS A VERY VERY STRANGE BEHAVIOR ESPECIALLY AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE "BMW DEALERS". IN SOME OF MY OTHER HOME COUNTRIES, FINLAND AND SWEDEN, SUCH A BEHAVIOR WOULD END UP IN A CRIMINAL COURT.

    I also enclose (attachment number 2) a Bangkok post article about the the MD for BMW motorcycles from last year. With that experience he should know what a foreigner expect from BMW., even in Thailand...’

    After a long time not succeeding to find any person accountable and in charge in the Barcelona Motors organization I gave up and “went up in the organization”.First I send (I tried to send) direct to the managing director of Barcelona Motors
    But in telephone nobody knew what his name was or his e-mail address….!!!
    Anyhow I found an advertisement where there was a ‘talk direct to the MD add” where they asked to send an e-mail direct to the MD with your problem described together with your chassis number and the MD will contact me in 24 hours…
    He still today hasn’t contacted me.

    On the 22 of March I tried again without any response.

    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]; [email protected]
    Subject: RE: my bmw cs650
    Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:04:28 +0300

    URGENT!!!!! pls contact me. I have sent at least 20 e mails telephoned a hundred times and all what I have got is empty promises 'HE WILL CALL BACK" BMW STYLE'........

    REGD'S

    BENGT HAIKOLA


    SO THEN THE E -MAIL ENDED UP TO THE MD BMW MOTORCYCLES KAMOLCHART PRAVITRA. Of course nobody knew his e mail address but they told me that I can send it to the address above. Of course no response again except that the e mail receiver Sethipong Anutarasoti sent me an e-mail that he will send the e –mail forward to the MD, but it didn’t help…but I was happy, the first reply in two years….

    Here is the copies of my last e-mails to the MDs where you can get some insight about what has happened.

    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: FW: my bmw cs650
    Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:50:58 +0300
    ATT.Mr Kamolchart Pravitra.

    Ref BMW problems.

    I read Your story in the life/BP magazine and found out that You are a genuine motorcycle enthusiast, as I also am. I have more than 1,5 million Km:s behind me, a few around the world trips and I actually came the first time to Thailand in 1974 driving a CB750 Honda overland from Finland through Syrias ,Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan just to mention a few. I also have had more than 10 motorcycle shops among them a BMW dealership.

    So I hope that You understand that I know what I am talking about.

    My story You can find enclosed. I am still astonished that things like this can happen, even in Thailand and at an official BMW dealership.

    To make it short. I left my BMW bike 2 years ago to find out what electrical problem the bike had. That procedure would have taken approx. 30 minutes.

    Instead Barcelona Motors started a 80.000 Baht costing odyssey finding all other problems. When they finally found out the real problem they claim that the engine is also broken…

    Ok You can read the story for Yourself and don’t hesitate to contact me. I cannot get any response from Barcelona….

    Best Rgds

    Bengt Haikola 089 2500 635

    ________________________________________
    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]; [email protected]
    Subject: my bmw cs650
    Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 06:38:42 +0300
    e-mail: [email protected]
    or tel. 089-205-2777, 02-938-7777 ext. 8401, 8402

    Concerning motorbike BMW F650CS
    WE10184A93ZH15387
    ปมง 928

    Dear MD of Barcelona Motors and all other it may concern.


    This is the text I have sent to all these other places and from where you can get some insight in what has happened.

    I brought the bike specified above in Your shop 7 ½ year ago. when I bought the bike the bike was not registered, under 1000 km in the clock and was supposed to be a 2004 model, manufactured in the end of 2003. I was supposed to get a book with registration in 2004. I was also promised the guarantee as a new bike.

    Anyhow the bike got registered in the last days of 2003, so it became an older model, the model year was not 2004 but 2003 and it was manufactured in 2002. All this I had to check up with Germany. So my bike was suddenly worth 50.000-100.00 baht less than we thought. When I confronted the sales manager (Yuit?) he first told me that I am wrong but after he checked it up he confessed that he was wrong. Since he said that he couldn’t compensate me in the price anymore he promised me free service etc for the sum. This was never realized and Yuit left for Britbike/Triumph.

    I actually never needed any service from you. Since I have been a BMW dealer in Finland for ten years and I still have many friends in the BMW after sales business, who visits me regularly, I know what has to be included in the service schedule. It is not also very funny for people living in Pattaya to drive the bike to Bangkok and pick up it a few days later. Anyhow I was impressed by Your service shop in the old place. Everything was super clean and the mechanics seemed to be professional. I have many friends here in Pattaya with new BMW:s bought from You because of recommendation from me and I helped them when they have had problems with their bikes. Your service department at that time, was very friendly and helpful and you even took Your service car to bring spare parts to Pattaya together with two mechanics and had them assemble the parts here. GOOD SERVICE!!!

    That is one reason why I am chocked to see Your dirty, untidy workshop in Your new place. The workshop full of partly dismantled bikes, with the engine or shaft drive parts just left on the dirty floor collecting dust (I have pictures), the working places not cleaned for weeks, coke cans and half eaten Thai food packages left together with the engine parts on the mc-lifts floors, mc-lifts that hadn’t been used for months etc.

    Your workshop today looks like those thousands of other Thai style workshops all over Thailand, not like a serious, BMW authorized, workshop. Pls open Your eyes and go look in Your workshop. I am sure You will shame.

    Anyhow, then I had a technical failure with my bike, which I couldn’t handle my self.

    The reason was that the bike during a normal drive suddenly stopped and wouldn’t restart again. There was no mechanical noise before it stopped, there was no “stop and start again”, it just died. Since I do not have the necessary computer equipment at home in Thailand to check the electronics of this fuel injected engine I brought it to Your shop to have the bike in a computer test to find out what the problem was. This must have been late summer in 2009.
    I thought that this would cost a maximum a few thousand Baht and I even stayed in Bangkok for the day so that I could pick up the bike when returning to Pattaya. That is 2 years ago.IF YOU HAD DONE WHAT I ORDERED, YOU WOULD HAVE FOUND OUT IN 5 MINUTES THAT THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THE PULSE GENERATOR WAS BROKEN. IF YOU HAD DONE THAT IMMIDIATLY AS I ASKED FOR, I WOULD HAVE HAD THE BIKE WITH ME THE SAME DAY ON MY RETURN TO PATTAYA.
    Actually you invoiced me one year later, on the 25.06.2010 Checking Set electronic 12 units a 65 Baht together 780 Baht. If You had done this when I brought the bike you would have found out that the pulse generator was broken and that why the engine didn’t start. That was what I had ordered.

    Anyhow you did only charge for the Checking of the electronic on the 25.06.2010, but it was not done until one month later when you informed me by e-mail on the 31.7.2010 that the pulse generator was broken and must be replaced at a cost of 8445,51 Baht+Gaset ( You probably meant gasket) 730.81 Bht. You forgot to mention + VAT and assembly cost, but anyhow I accepted it because I was fed up with Your non existent service, Your total lack of not only BMW knowledge,but also any motorcycle knowledge. Just give my bike back!!! Pulse generator had to be ordered from Germany.
    {b}But there was plenty of “strange things” before that.{/b} When I left the bike in 2009, expecting a one hour work and a bill of maybe 2.000, I asked You to {b}check the electronics and the fuel injection to find out why the bike doesn’t start.{/b} I was told yes, yes. I was even so hopeful that I returned the same afternoon before going back to Pattaya to see if the bike was ready. It was not, I was told that somebody will phone me when it is ready
    Then nothing happened for a long time. When I contacted Barcelona myself a lady telephoned me back and told me that they have indentified the problem and it is the petrol filter. I told her that I do not believe her since I changed that myself in accordance with BMW:s instructions but if the bike works now then it is ok.
    I also told her again to put the bike in the computer test to check the fuel injection and electronics. She said yes.
    A few days later she telephoned me and told me that the reason why the bike doesn’t start is that the gasoline filter is blocked. She also told me that they have to put a new battery because I forgot to deliver it with the bike
    On the 29th of June I replied by e-mail and told You that I don’t believe the problem is the gasoline filter and I told that you that that I have the battery here in Pattaya, charging it separately, as You are supposed to do.
    I think she sent me an e-mail on the 6th of July in which she told me that “her” mechanic had checked the filter and it must be changed because the bike hasn’t been used for a long time. I didn’t want to argue with her but it is impossible to see from the outside if the filter has to be changed, since it is a solid metal package. Also the reason “the bike hasn’t been used for a long time is in principle valid. But the reason for that was Barcelona’s slow and long “service” time. Also I know by now, that Gasohol is not good for the BMW:s if you don’t drive for a long time. On the other hand BMW says that Gasohol is OK and doesn’t mention anything about that you cannot keep Gasohol in the tank for a long time. So please discuss with BMW about the truth with Gasohol and BMW:s.

    About the battery I was told another story. I was told that You already had to change the battery because you had to start the engine. This was a big lie because later I found out that you didn’t have the battery in stock so you have to order it from Germany and it will take three weeks. Anyhow I was told that you have started the engine and you have checked the electronics, injection, you have changed the oil and oil filter, you have changed the fluid in the ABS system etc. How can You do all this without a battery and without starting the engine. The oil must be hot to be changed, the electronics/injection cannot be checked without starting the engine and a battery etc. Somebody told me big lies.

    Another thing I must take up is the price of the battery. You charged 260 Baht to change the battery. For the battery You charged 3.661,00 Baht. All together almost 4.200 Baht+7Baht sales tax. I can buy exactly the same battery (FB made in Japan) here in Pattaya for 1.000 Baht, and at that price the workshop picks up the bike at my home, assemble the battery, charge it for 6 hours and brings back the bike.
    How stupid do You think Your customers are? Do You think that if they are stupid enough to buy a BMW from Barcelona/BMW they are also so stupid that they will pay 4 times as much for exactly the same battery, only to have it assembled in the dirty workshop at Barcelona after waiting 3 weeks (actually I waited one year).UNBELIEVABLE!!!

    Then You started an odyssey of non essential “services”. Pls note that at this stage you hadn’t even started the engine. You didn’t even asked me if I wanted the “service”. Yes I know now that you have sent me some strange invoices on excel which I have not been able to open because you send them in such large mode that they cannot be opened in hotmail. Later I had a computer guru open them for me by transforming the size of the files..
    You performed oil change, oil filter, coolant change, new brake fluids, new grips spark plugs etc. Everything was lies and I NEVER HAVE ORDERED THESE “SERVICES”. I ONLY ASKED YOU TO FIND OUT WHY THE BIKE DOESN’T START”

    This behavior on Your behalf is very close to criminal, in Europe it would be criminal for sure.

    Then I didn’t hear from You for a long time. Any time I phone I got funny explanations. I was told that by changing the gasoline filter the bike works. That was a lie.

    I am not sure when I got information that the petrol pump must be changed. Actually I think that You never informed me about. Anyhow I know for sure that the petrol pump worked when I left it to You for checking the electronics.

    Anyhow I was again informed by You that now it will work when You get the petrol pump from Germany. Then I got a new message one month later on the 31.7 that the Pulse Generator is broken and must be ordered from Germany, as mentioned above. I was so fed up with You so I accepted it.

    Nobody tried to explain for me how it was possible that simultaneously the bike, that suddenly stopped in the middle of a ride, can get three different fouls, first the diagnosis was the petrol filter and by changing that the bike works. The next diagnosis was that the petrol pump is broken and by changing that the bike will work. And now I got the last diagnosis, the Pulse generator is broken and I am quite sure that this was the correct diagnosis, it was only made 1 ½ year to late. Your lack of competence is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

    But do You think that the farce was over now? No.

    Since I didn’t hear anything from you for a long time I contacted You in at the end of 2010 to ask if You have got the pulse generator? The answer was Yes. Does the bike work now? Then I was told that You can start the bike now but there is a mechanical problem inside the engine. I later telephoned the mechanic and he put his telephone close to the engine and told me to listen myself. I shouted to him in the telephone STOP THE ENGINE! First of all You cannot figure out by telephone if there is some mechanical noise. Secondly you should not rev the engine if it has a mechanical problem. I told him that I will come to Bangkok to see for my self.

    So now I got the fourth diagnosis and if You use a little logical thinking it is obvious that a bike that suddenly stops doesn’t ends up with }FOUR DIFFERENT FAULTS.

    So I came to Bangkok , it must have been in the end of 2010. I telephoned Barcelona in advance to take care that the battery is charged and the bike can be started. But when I arrived I was only presented with a approx 80.000 Baht invoice and the bike still didn’t start. Even the battery was flat and an old one.And now they even say that the engine must be opened for mechanical problems!!!

    {b}I got furious. After more than 1 ½ years waiting You cannot still start the bike and you present me with an invoice of 80.000 Baht and You want to give me back the bike in much, much worse condition than it was when I left it!!!

    Pls put Your hand on your heart and tell me “well done”?


    It was also at this occasion that I got the chock how untidy, dirty Your new workshop was when I walked in the middle of broken BMW:s with the parts kept on the floor…I am sure that is against Your contract with BMW
    And my impression didn’t get any better when I asked to see the parts You had “changed “. One of Your mechanics gave me a plastic bag from my bike’s handle bar. I looked in the bag for a while and some parts maybe was from a 650 BMW but when I found some parts from a shaft drive I had to tell the mechanic that this bag is not from my bike. He quickly took the bag and disappeared with it for 15 minutes. He then came back with an “updated” version now with 650 parts. But from which bike?. The petrol filter had some cracks from the outside, where they came from: The plastic fittings on the petrol pump was broken, the filter connected to the petrol pump was like a stone etc. I got a very bad impression of all this but I can understand that it is difficult to keep control of all the old parts lying in chaos on the floor collecting dust in Your “professional workshop”.

    I left Your shop, telling Your mechanic to do nothing but taking away all the parts You had fitted and asked him to have some “big boss” telephone me.

    But nothing happened and again I had to telephone and this time I asked for the managing director. Anyhow I never reached him but I talked a few time with his secretary, who spoke fluent English. She promised that the managing director will telephone me back. This never happened.

    So now we are here. During the process I have got ill (not because of You) and will never be able to drive my BMW. I also have lost a few hundred thousands Baht on depreciation of the bike’s value, I spent 28 hours collecting material to this letter, I have talked with lawyers , I have read the Thai Consumer protection Act,

    B.E. 2522 (1979)
    BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX.,
    Given on the 30th day of April B.E 2522;
    Being the 34th Year of the Present Reign.

    But one thing is for sure and that is that I want justice. I have talked with a lawyer here in Pattaya and he will be more than happy to help me. I am also quite active on some motorcycle Web sites here in Thailand, but up to now I haven’t told my story. As I told You I also have good contacts with BMW since my days as a BMW dealer. So now it is up to You. Do You want to clear this matter AS A GENTLEMAN IN A FAIR WAY OR DO YOU PREFER TO DO IT THE “HARD WAY”?

    I MUST SAY THAT I WAS QUITE AMUSED TO READ YOUR ADD ON INTERNET:
    “Barcelona Group provides full range service for BMW motorcycle by our team who has been trained and tested according to German Standard, with special skills in electronics and problem analysis by computer system or Group Test 1 (GT1) together with over 8,000 part items in stock in order to increase speed of service. At present, Barcelona Group has the service capacity throughout the country as for 3 branches located in Vipavadi, Chiangmai, and Phuket.
    BMW Motorcycle has been designed to meet customer's needs in capacity, safety and comfort and controlled by electronics system including capacity set adjustment and GT1 facilities to support the advanced technology of new BMW motorcycle. Therefore, Barcelona Group has served BMW Motorrad Online Service System or MOSS which enables smooth and fast flow of service and higher efficiency for our customers.”

    I AM QUITE CONVINCED THAT ALSO YOU ADMIT THAT THESE ARE ONLY EMPTY WORDS OR, AS THE GERMANS SAY:

    “VIELE SPRECHEN ABER NICHTS”

    YOU CAN CONTACT ME ON E-MAIL OR BY TELEPHONE 089 2500 635.

    In few days I will send a copy to Khun Kamolchart Pravitra at BMW Thailand and to the German head office to have an investigation started there also. Hopefully You contact me quickly this time so we can avoid further problems.

    Best Rgds Bengt Haikola
     
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  3. HIKO

    HIKO Ol'Timer

    ATTACHMENT NR 1.
    IT IS NOT ONLY BARCELONA CHANG MAI THAT HAS PROBLEMS. BANGKOK ALSO HAVE!!!!

    THIS IS NOT A SECOND HAND INFO. I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT PERSONALLY AND IS STILL EXPRIENCING IT.

    “BMW STYLE” ? ? ?


    May 2nd Charmz
    , 2011 at 10:39 am

    The group of mechanics that swarmed over the bikes seemed to be barely out of school…!! Trevor and I exchanged nervous glances as we watched them begin removing parts from our bikes… I was particularly surprised by the fact that they had not bothered to remove our panniers…!!

    Our only hope is that the “kids” managed to give Big Fella and Big Red the attention they desparately needed in that pokey place called a workshop. Happy to see your new tyres on at long last. Happy riding…..
    From the size of the dealership, we expected the workshop that we had entrusted our bikes to, would be “state of the art”… We were more than a little surprised to find our trusty machines squeezed into a narrow little workshop, where many parts of other bikes lay scattered around on the floor…

    ATTACHMENT NR 2.

    BMW's big bike businessman
    This well-rounded family man is the head of the company's motorcycle unit in Thailand

    • Published: 23/03/2011 at 12:00 AM
    • Newspaper section: Life
    One would never guess that Kamolchart Pravitra is a big bike enthusiast.

    The bespectacled general manager of BMW's Motorrad motorcycle unit in Thailand presents a picture of a happy man who 10 months ago became the proud father of fraternal twins, a boy and girl.
    Even his healthy, well-rounded physique typically clad in business attire is a far cry from the appearance of a thrill-seeking speed addict normally associated with big bike riders.
    Not that big bike riders cannot be happy family men per se, but Kamolchart is the antithesis of the rough and hard-edged big bike riders seen in Hollywood movies wearing leathers.
    Yet, 12 years ago, Kamolchart was _ and probably still is _ the only BMW employee who had a passion for big bikes which is why he was chosen to open a new market for BMW motorcycles with his predecessor and boss at that time.
    "I started driving [without the knowledge of his parents] when I was in elementary school and was interested in model and miniature cars as a hobby," said Kamolchart.
    After studying at the prestigious Chitrlada school, the young car buff attended Ferris State University in Oklahoma, US, where he earned a degree in automotive engineering followed by an MBA from San Diedo's National University.
    Kamolchart's first job was at BMW Thailand as a technical specialist.
    "During my summer breaks, I would hang around service garages and get my hands dirty, so to speak, for my on-the-job training," said the 36-year-old.
    "I happened to be the only employee at BMW who could ride a big motorcycle, so my boss took me out to survey the market, dealerships and after sales potential of the market in a feasibility study.
    "My responsibility was after sales for the BMW motorcycle unit in Thailand before I was promoted to head of Motorrad [BMW motorcycle subsidiary]," said Kamolchart.
    To the average Joe, a BMW motorcycle might seem unique because it is driven by pistons instead of the conventional chain system.
    However, Kamolchart begs to differ. "The BMW is a dream bike, from the old Boxer models till today. Once an individual attains financial freedom, it is highly likely that he or she will think of BMW as the first choice."
    On the market presence of BMW motorcycles, he said that Ride Away programmes and charity rides are a common way of establishing brand awareness. There are about 300 members in the BMW motorcycle club in Thailand.
    As a testament to BMW's heritage in Thailand, it claims to be the first official big bike brand in the Thai market as opposed to its European and Japanese counterparts.
    Regarding BMW Motorrad's network, there are four dealerships _ two are in Bangkok _ on Vibhavadi Rangsit and Rama II roads, operated by Barcelona Motors and Bangkok Motorcycle respectively _ and there is one each in Phuket and Chiang Mai.
    "We operate a BMW Mobility service with tow truck for riders with fuel or battery problems."
    Last year BMW sold 245 units, a 73% increase over the 142 units sold in the previous year. Since 2001, more than 1,000 BMW motorcycles have been sold in addition to an estimated 1,000 units sold by Yontrakit Classic.
    BMW Motorrad is also the regional centre for training and new product knowledge; staff from markets such as China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia and India all come to Thailand for training.
    Asked to comment on new products featuring at the 32nd Bangkok International Motorshow, he said the 1.45-million-baht K1600 GTL motorcycle will make its world premiere in Thailand, which, according to Kamolchart, will "be shown before the official world debut at the end of March".
    "The K1600 GTL is a 6-cylinder engine which is a first for BMW. Everything from the engine to the chassis is new. It is a very comfortable luxury touring bike for long hauls, with adaptive headlights [a world first for motorcycles], ABS, electronic suspension and tyre pressure control.
    "It is virtually a 4-wheel technology [automobile] incorporated onto a 2-wheel vehicle," explained Kamolchart.
    Obviously, a big bike or motorcycle is more of a weekend hobby and is rarely used on a daily basis but the thrill and adrenaline it offers is unique when compared to its four-wheel counterparts.
    10QUESTIONS
    ❚ What is your favourite car (besides a BMWor Mini)?
    Myfamily’s 1956 Mercedes-Benz Ponton, which is still under restoration.
    ❚ Favourite motorcycle (which is not a BMW)?
    Suzuki Hayabuza 1300cc with 200hp.
    ❚ Favourite watchmaker?
    Brietling.
    ❚ Favourite destination?
    HuaHin.
    ❚ Who are your scariest motorcycle competitors?
    The Japanese brands, but I am confident our technology is still superior.
    ❚ Favourite human being?
    Bill Gates.
    ❚ Favourite athlete?
    FI maestro Michael Schumacher.
    ❚ Greatest achievement?
    I amproudtobeworking withBMW. It ismyhobby, passion and dream, so you could call thismydream job.
    ❚ Favourite book?
    Textbookson raising children.
    ❚ If you were in charge of automotive policy for a day, what would you do?
    Place emphasison the importance of big bike motorcycles and allow for a level playing field in the market without double standards.

    ATTACHMENT NR 3.

    Consumer protection Act,
    B.E. 2522 (1979)
    BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX.,
    Given on the 30th day of April B.E 2522;
    Being the 34th Year of the Present Reign.
    Greater Consumer Protection for the General Public (26/08/2008) Share

    People living in Thailand will soon be provided with greater consumer protection. The Government will establish consumer protection coordinating offices in all regions of the country to protect people from being exploited by unscrupulous traders.

    The decision was made recently during a meeting of the Consumer Protection Board, chaired by Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office Chousak Sirinil, in his capacity as Chairman of the Consumer Protection Board.

    A total of nine coordinating offices for consumer protection will be set up within a period of five years, from 2009 to 2013. At the initial stage, the first coordinating office will be formed in Bangkok by next year and the remaining eight offices will be set up in the provinces in the next few years. This project aims to enhance the capacity of consumer protection mechanisms and empower local administrative organizations, so that they will work with greater efficiency in providing fairness to the people and protect them from exploitation. It will help strengthen Thailand’s overall economy and ensure its sustainable development.

    The Consumer Protection Board has issued an announcement requiring used cars to be label-controlled goods. The announcement will take effect on 31 August 2008. From that date, dealers of used cars need to display labels on their cars on sale, with all relevant details, such as the day of registration, registration number, the name of brand, the color of the car, the type of fuel, and the name of previous owners. Violators will be subject to a jail term of up to six months, or a fine of up to 50,000 baht, or both.

    The Consumer Protection Board has sent officials to give advice on label-controlled goods to traders for a certain period. It has also appointed a subcommittee to prevent and crack down on violations of consumers’ rights. The subcommittee is sending its staff to follow up on the displaying of labels on used cars, before the announcement of the Consumer Protection Board takes effect.

    The Office of the Consumer Protection Board is a government agency attached to the Office of the Prime Minister. Its main duties are to handle complaints received from consumers and institute legal proceedings when an infringement of consumer rights is recognized. The Office covers three major areas of consumer protection: consumer protection against misleading advertising, protection against false labeling, and protection in contracts.

    The protection of consumers in Thailand is regulated by the Consumer Protection Act, which calls for the protection of the rights of consumers and aims to prevent businesses from deceiving consumers. According to the law, consumers have the rights to full knowledge about the goods that they are purchasing, or the services they are obtaining, so that they will be provided with full protection.
     
  4. mudboots

    mudboots Ol'Timer

    Sh.t mate what a horror story, It puts you off buying a BMW bike or a car in Thailand for that mater.
    Might sound a bit crazy and maybe to late now but what if you wheelchaired yourself in to the BKK motor show with a protest sign, yah you would have been kicked out soon enough but with all the news media there one might have asked you what it was all about it would have embarrassed BMW for sure .... what the h.ll you have tried everything else.
    Best of luck sorting it out and hope your health inprove's

    Brad.
     
  5. cdrw

    cdrw Ol'Timer

    A better alternative to Barcelona BMW!!

    I thought I needed a valve adjustment, as I had 60K-Km on my 2001 F650GS.
    John Gooding recommended I go to BKK Motorcycles, in BKK
    http://www.bkkmotorcycle.com/about-bkk.php (sites in Thai, but they do speak English on the phone and at the shop)

    I made the trip from Pattaya and found the shop worked exclusively on BMW bikes (no cars) and furthermore
    the place had far more BMW bikes than I'd ever seen anywhere, unlike Barcelona which has a few new bikes on display and a few in for repairs.

    Bottom line...They said my valves were still fine and didn't need adjustment. They did find and clean the throttle valve switch and fuel plug.
    Total cost was 750-Bt. They also said my bike had the original fuel filter (10-years old!)...but as as it was working okay they is no need to replace it.
    They said they have only _needed_ to replace fuel filters on 2 bikes, in the last 10-years of business!
     
  6. Changnoi1

    Changnoi1 Ol'Timer

    I do not ride a BMW but I think an alternative to BMW Barcelona is the only thing that will change their minds at BMW Barcelona.

    Chang Noi
     
  7. KZ25

    KZ25 Ol'Timer

    Many members know HIKO, maybe not personally but through his posts. He has established his reputation on this site and his experience carries some weight! And if he takes the time to have his say then there's something to it and not just hear-say.

    Hopefully you'll recover soon, I wish you all the best!

    Service at any dealership is very important. It's not only about receiving good service, it's also about being greeted as someone the salespeople and mechanics know and respect. You're something like "part of a family".

    I remember getting lousy service at the BMW dealer in Honolulu while the mechanics at Suzuki were cool bros. They let me walk around the repair shop, they never tired of my questions and gave me personal advice on how to improve my bikes. I could even take some cheap parts without paying for them.
    It didn't take long and I had a DR650 and a 1400 Intruder in my garage and stopped by the dealer just for fun.

    Motorcycling is not just buying a bike and riding it, it's also about meeting other fellows who are into the same things and have interesting stories to share.

    If you dread going to your dealership because you're afraid that those clowns may mess up your bike or treat you like a cash-cow then it's time to either find another shop or switch to another brand!
     
  8. HIKO

    HIKO Ol'Timer

    I am happy I got an reply from Barcelona motors!!!

    K.Haikola - F650CS‏

    9.4.2012
    Vastaa ▼
    chotima.in​takarn@bmw-​barcelonamo​tor.com
    Vastaanottajat: [email protected]
    Dear K.Haikora

    We would like to thank you for your feedback.According to information received from Motorrad Department,Service Advisor informed that your motorbike had finish and ready to pick up with 35,980.89 baht.But you disapproved this price and required to take all parts out. For this issue please understand that we could not do as your request.

    However, I would take this case to consult with the motorrad team to find out the best solution for you i.e. special discount for parts. I would contact you as soon as I get the solution. Anyway, If you have any queries, please feel free to contact me.

    Best regards,

    Chotima I.
     
  9. HIKO

    HIKO Ol'Timer

    AND HERE IS MY REPLY.

    Thank You very much for Your quick replay. Especially I appreciate it because it is the first time somebody at Barcelona Motors is replying to my E-mails after 2 years!!! Unfortunally I had to go back to hospital before I got Your reply but today I had a friend pick me up and got some free hours from the doctors.

    Of course I appreciate that You have succeeded to have Barcelona Motors to forget some of their invoices thus discounting almost 50.000 Baht. Maybe they found out that all invoices didn’t belong to my bike…

    Some more questions:

    1/ Is the bike really working now? What have they done to it since I was there in person one year ago and it didn’t start? What has been done to the engine, since during my last visit I was told that the engine must be opened since probably some bearings are broken?

    2/ Since I am quite sure that the bike is still not working I would like you to answer if you think that it is “fair” that I have to pay more than 35.000 Baht for Barcelona Motors keeping my bike for two years and giving it back in worse condition that it was, when I left it?!?!

    3/ How do you explain that a bike that was working ok suddenly stops (because of lost ignition spark) at the same time get’s a blocked petrol filter (according to Barcelona Motors) and that is the reason why the bike stopped. Since that didn’t get the ignition spark back they told me that you have to change the petrol pump because that is the problem. Then Barcelona Motors said that the igniter that is broken (which I think is correct) Barcelona Motors changed it and I was told that now the bike is working, but the engine is broken “inside” and they had me listen to it in telephone!!!! IF A ENGINE BEARING IS BROKEN YOU WILL SEE IT WHEN YOU CHANGE THE OIL AND OIL FILTER AND FOR SURE YOU SHOULD NOT RUN THE ENGINE!!!!! But Barcelona Motors did… very BMW professional in Barcelona Style…

    4/ It is interesting to see that Barcelona Motors haven’t charged the only part that was actually broken, the igniter, since the sum they want me to pay is exactly the same as the first invoice where the igniter was not included…

    5/When I left the bike to Barcelona Motors I left it for checking why the bike stopped suddenly and didn’t start. I told them to put the bike into the computer which they probably also did a year later, at least in the invoice now charged is included Checking/set electronic 780 Baht +7% VAT. Since I HAVE DONE THE SAME PROCEDURE MYSELF MANY TIMES ON OTHER BIKES IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO USE MORE THAN I HOUR ON THAT WORK AND THAT IS SURE THAT YOU WILL SEE THE PROBLEM THEN. NO SPARK… If you had done it when I left the bike on the 24.02.2010 in the morning I could have picked up the bike the same day in the afternoon when I came back to pick up the bike for Pattaya and I would have got the diagnosis and paid the 900 Baht bill…. But Barcelona hadn’t done anything when I arrived, but they promised to do it quickly and telephone me. That never happened. When I contacted them they had problem to do anything because there was no battery. I said sorry, because I had forgot to deliver the bike with the battery since I normally take out the battery, if the bike is not used and put the battery to an intellect charger to keep the battery in shape. I promised to deliver the battery but was told that they just put a new battery. Anyhow half a year later I got an invoice where the battery was mentioned and it said “ordered from Germany three weeks”. First of all as long as I had motorbikes shops we always had big car battery on a small wagon on small wheels which we used when the bike’s batteries were low or missing. Very convenient. If you put a small gasoline tank on the same wagon quite high, fuses and other spare parts you will have a very flexible fast emergency service back up. Strongly recommended. Anyhow the result of this “battery farce “ was that you charged me (still on the invoice) 4000 Baht for a battery. When tried to pick up the bike it was equipped with a used Japanese battery which didn’t work. When I bought the bike from Barcelona Motors it was equipped with a FB battery made in japan, which I buy for 1000 Baht charged and put on the bike for 1000 Baht here in Pattaya…. Why should I pay for a used battery 4 times as much as for a new one… even if it put in the bike at an Authorized BMW workshop? Actually I think that BMW uses Sonnenschein batteries which are “German” batteries made in Japan…

    5/ Then the first year Barcelona Motors concentrated their efforts not on trying to find why the bike has no ignition spark but on no essential “service” not ordered and for which I do not pay.
    5a/ They changed the oil. Why? I change oil myself regularly and I know how to do it and when. I probably have made more than 1000, maybe 5000, oil changes in my life without complications. Why should I have Barcelona Motors to change oil and oil filters at double price. Maybe because I want to have some of the left over food and half empty coke cans from the workshop ‘s floor, hydraulic working tables used as warehouses and dirty tables to get mixed with the oil…Tom Yam Coke Oil, “specially recommended by BMW????
    You use original oil filter. Yes. Original “Made in Germany”? No, because BMW buy where they get them as cheap as possible and then they sell them as “original BMW” BMW used to buy filters made in Thailand, the same factory who makes most of the KN filters to Europe. “the English Hi-Flow filters” as well as theirs JT-sprockets, both damned good products are (or at least were) Made in Thailand. “Genuine British Designed Motorcycle” Triumph is probably made in Chonburi. They have three factories with a yearly capacity of more than 100.000 bikes and Triumph are selling 50.000n bikes. Why should they make any bikes in Hinckley?... BMW has moved the single cylinder manufacturing to India and China, before most of the engines were made at the Aprilia factory in Italy now owned by Piaggio. Piaggio again stopped all productions of small bikes and scooters in Italy and moved the production to the Far East. KTM;s main owner is TATA motors from India , the smaller bikes , up to 200cc are made there. Some of the parts to bigger bikes come from there. “Made in Austria” Ha Ha!!!
    Have you heard about the high quality Motorcycle helmet SHARK, made in France established 1929, mostly and originally famous because of Australian Superbike Rider Carl Fogarty. They are not made in Europe, they are made in the ACT factory in Rayon.
    But this last topic started by talking about oil. Barcelona Motors uses Castrol Oil with a “high price” probably recommended by BMW Thailand. Yes Castrol oil is a good oil but it is not tested as you think. When I was BMW dealer in Scandinavia I was very happy that BMW Sweden started to recommend SPECTRO OILS for BMW. It was good business for me. A few years later they changed “opinion” and recommended BELRAY Oils, that suited me also because I was importer for BELRAY in Finland. Do you think that the decisions were of technical nature after serious tests. NO, NO and NO. It was the result of who is selling the oil most cheaply to the motorcycle importer Since the bikes came without oil and must be filled and with the oil changes in the future it were good business if it was a reason for keeping the guarantee.. JUST A COMMERCIAL DECISION. To tell the truth none of the two American “oil companies” mentioned above were any “oil companies” they were just marketing companies and oil blenders. They bought different oils which they blended and called them “their product”. Pls no illusions….
    The same is with oil, spark plugs, filters etc, yes it is “original” spare parts over priced because of that but, where are they made and who have tested them? Sorry to say it is all commercial decisions.
    I and many many other BMW users have learnt a long time a go to look on the packages where are they made. Sometimes you can find a small text “made in Thailand” or you can se from the computer BAR-code on the packing. All the info can be found on internet like where is it manufactured. If we talk about complete motorbikes the chassis number tells where the bike is manufactured and at what factory. So do not foolish the customer we are not as stupid as you think and want us to be.
    Yes we live in a small but global world. That is not bad. But it is bad when some “BMW managers” try to exploit the brand name and “made in Germany” in a way where they think that all their customers are stupid. WE YOUR CUSTOMERS CAN FIND OUT WHERE YOUR” MADE IN GERMANY” IS MADE AND HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO OVER CHARGE. We do not all have “BMW glasses” which make us blind and I think it is time for you also to take Your glasses of and come down to reality…
    At least I will not pay for not ordered “services” at a huge over price. How the oil change will affect what I had ordered “electrical problem”? How can they change oil with a cold engine since the engine didn’t work. Why didn’t they see from the oil/oil filter that there was a engine/bearing failure inside the engine?

    5b/ Other nonessential services Barcelona motors try to charge me.

    5ba/While waiting for Barcelona Motors to take care of what I have ordered they changed the right and left handgrips for 1300 Baht with VAT. How will that help me get the ignition spark back? Also the BMW grips are very bad and not suitable for the Thai climate as are most of the BMW plastics. I didn’t order new grips.

    5bb/ Barcelona charges me for changing brake fluids and testing the ABS. First of all how will this affect the loss of ignition spark? How can they test the ABS if the bike is not running? They put new sparkplugs before they found out that there is no spark. Why they change new spark plugs without checking is there any ignition spark?

    5bc/ They put new coolant. How that will get the spark back? They bleed the coolant, how can you do that without starting the engine?

    5bd/They charge for Checking the injection 1190 Baht+VAT. How can you check that when the bike is not running???

    5be/They changed a lot of rubber tubes even if I hadn’t actually ordered them. You have them ordered from German even if you before had tested the machine to bleed the coolant, check the ABS, changed the oil, put new spark , new air filter plus etc. The only thing I actually ordered a rubber strap fr the battery is not yet arrived… after 2 years. There is no logics in theirs invoices and it seems more and more as a fraud maybe because chaos in their invoicing routines or persons employed doing “monkey business”.

    6/ And then one question more I want to have answered in a believable way. I was presented with a plastic bag with “my old spare parts” When I was complaining after a while that this cannot be parts from my bike even if the plastic bag was on my handle bars the bag disappeared and after 10 minutes I was presented with a new “set up bag” and for sure some of the parts were not from my bike. How does Barcelona Motors really handle this situation that the bike owner want to see the old parts that have been changed. Does Barcelona Motors have a set of suitable plastic bags for different occasions.? BMW STYLE!!!!!

    Frankly speaking I probably would have accepted you 38.000 Baht offer when I was in Bangkok to pick up my bike. Now the situation is different. I have spent soon 100.000 Baht on lawyers and I can tell You that it is quite time consuming to tell a lawyer all what Barcelona Motors have done, and the lawyers charge…. Also the more I go into this case the more incredible everything seems. I also quite upset by the almost total lack of response (but thank you for Your response) from Barcelona Motors and BMW Thailand and BMW German. But I will survive and my economical loss will be smaller than what Barcelona Motors will loose.

    If Barcelona Motors want to get away from this mess in a gentleman way they better come up with a proposal where money goes the other direction and they should immediately bring the bike back to Pattaya.

    Now I must finish this letter and go back to my hospital for more injections.
    Waiting for your quick reply.

    The e-mail will be forwarded to all others involved even if I DO NOT EXPECT ANY FEED BACK.
    BEST RGD

    BENGT “HIKO” HAIKOLA
     
  10. David Learmonth

    David Learmonth Ol'Timer

    To think I nearly ordered a R1200RT from CNX in 2006 - all this makes me somewhat glad that I didn't!
     
  11. mikerust

    mikerust Ol'Timer

    Maybe a solution would be for Barcelona to ride the bike to Pattaya? Then it would prove it works.

    However one general problem I see here is that the majority of customers at Barcelona spend more that 50,000 baht a month on golf so they, BM, probably cannot understand what all the fuss over 50,000 baht is about. I'm not saying this is right but...

    A friend just bought a new 1200 GS I will have to ask him what experience he has.
     
  12. Ozjourno

    Ozjourno Ol'Timer

    "However one general problem I see here is that the majority of customers at Barcelona spend more that 50,000 baht a month on golf so they, BM, probably cannot understand what all the fuss over 50,000 baht is about. I'm not saying this is right but..."

    That's patronising, unfair and probably just a little silly.
     
  13. BrownGhost

    BrownGhost Member

    Hi i to have massive problems with Barcelona phuket + Bangkok, BMW Thailand, and BMW in general..
    I have waited 146 days to get my bike (BMW S1000RR) back from repair.. repair under warranty..
    They have lied, cheated, and so much more its unbelievable..
    And BMW Germany don't care at all what going on..

    I have now made a website to get all cases of: cheated, lied to, unhappy BMW customers cases online on 1 site!
    Its NOT a forum, and in no way in competition to this forum..

    We just need to have all the cases online in one place, for the world to open its eyes and see BMW Is Not Joy!
    have a look, please contact me if you have a case and wait it online...
    http://www.joy-is-not-bmw.com
     
  14. hs0zfe

    hs0zfe Ol'Timer

    It would be good if contributors could share how their cases were resolved? Does anyone know how Hiko's saga ended? (RIP, he had a big heart and I owe him for help).

    It's totally off topic, but I still remember the shock and anguish of being charged > 90 Marks in '87, I think, for an oil change for the R 45. In today's prices, that would be more like 7,000 Baht, JMHO.

    Garages do play these games when they have a moron like me as customer. An empty tank led to a $ 2,000 brake repair on a F-150 5.0 liter truck which I had purchased for $ 2,000. When I complained and had the work checked, they claimed having used <used parts>. How convenient! Just take the money!

    Economists know that is is 5 times more expensive to win a new customer versus keeping an existing customer happy. Some car brands include service and maintenance for the first years in the package.

    A high end bike like that S 1000 R (costing > 1 million Baht) needs to get repaired. Surely, the owner would pay to get parts overnighted for an additional 4,000 Baht? ** BTW, I've read about abysmal dealer service on a F-800 in the USA. It takes very little to lose one's reputation.

    We may be proud of our bikes and still be honest about issues.

    Chris
     

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