Bikes with invoice, 3% excise paid but not registered.

Discussion in 'General Discussion / News / Information' started by skybluestu, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. skybluestu

    skybluestu Ol'Timer

    Hi,

    Is it correct that as long as a bike has invoice papers and the 3% excise duty has been paid then the police can't confiscate the bike if it's not registered, they can only fine you?

    A guy I know has just bought a drz400sm and said the worst that can happen IF he gets stopped by the police (which is quite rare up here in Chiang Rai anyway, they usually just ignore farang) is a fine! He said that even though the bike has no green book he is still able to get insurance for it?!

    If this is correct then I'm tempted to do the same, an occasional small fine would be worth paying if that's the worst that can happen.

    Thanks in advance
     
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  3. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    BUT make sure that you have money on you every time you ride. They can and will confiscate the bike until the fine is paid. Also make sure insurance and tax (if ya can get it, i have heard that some LDV's will do that on the frame number) is up to date.

    I actually had my scooter picked up off the side of the road as i had let the tax lapse. I thought it had been stolen when i got to the police station to report it. they led me around the block and there it was chained up with loads of others.Had to pay a small fine the copper even draw me a map of where i had to go and get the tax. This was not in bkk but Nakhon pathom.
     
  4. monsterman

    monsterman Ol'Timer

    you must carry a copy of the Import tax document receipt showing import duty paid or they can impound the bike
     
  5. LivinLOS

    LivinLOS Ol'Timer

    I think its also very variable where in Thailand you are.. I hear often from northern riders that they 'cant take your bike' and I dont doubt this to be true where they are, but I know on Phuket you will have huge problems. 1) your going to be stopped nearly daily, they just dont 'tolerate it' 2) they will fine you hard here, this isnt just 100 or 200 baht and on your way, think 5, 10, 20k, or however far they can push you, and 3rd I am told they can refuse to give the bike back util it is made road worthy and that this process includes emissions passes if they want it to. This I havent seen but I also nearly never see unregged bikes here.

    The Phuket cops will also just steal bikes as part or a perk of the job, a mate ran out of fuel, left the bike and it got picked up. Within 24h it had been shifted from the police pound to a hidden location and the plates had been taken off it.. The cop who had keys (already made) was most irate (they wouldnt give it back until the owner in the book came from NST, not only showing the book, but the actual paper owner had to be present) as he figured it was his shiny new 600 steed and they still had to pay him a few 1000 bribe to get it back, I think he even wanted it for the price of him making the keys !! Thats a fully legal bike with book !! Lost scooters and tourists abandoning rental bikes at guesthouses etc are it seems considered fair game for police to take. I have had direct experience of this happening and helped get a negotiation where the missing bike was suddenly 'found'.

    So my 2 satang is theres rules and theres rules, not all are equal and not all applied equally. I am not claiming thats the way up north or in the boonies. Just adding how they can be down south.
     
  6. monsterman

    monsterman Ol'Timer

    When I used to be involved in running bike shops here it was made very Clear by lawyers , police and the excise department and the courts/Judges that any bike without fully paid up tax invoice from customs can be impounded under Thai law , if being displayed for sale as a complete machine or being used on public roads ...however once tax is paid and import invoice is displayed to officers it cannot be impounded ...but fines can be levied if bike being used and not registered.if fines not oaid bike can be impounded by officials with correct documents .
     
  7. Tom Forde

    Tom Forde Ol'Timer

    Through circumstances that I won't bore you with, I find my 2002 BMW Dakar to be illegal in Thailand.
    I have asked 8 different people on how to make it legal. 8 different answers.
    From simply forget about it (it is a legally registered Aust. bike) to get a lawyer! from litigation mad yanks.
    Simply, how do I pay the excise tax, who do I see, easy question, no ferang can give me an answer, and Thai's just know someone and want a handout.
    HELP!
    Tom :take-that:
     
  8. Hoghead

    Hoghead Ol'Timer

    Richie is one of only 2 or 3 excise tax agents in CM.
    Go see him and he will begin the process, and is doing so now with my Royal Enfield
     
  9. Tom Forde

    Tom Forde Ol'Timer

    Thanks for the advice Hoghead.
    This is No 9, he is the yank that advised me to get a lawy er!
    Now what do I do! :wtf:
    Cheers
    Tom
     
  10. alrikki

    alrikki Ol'Timer

    Not wishing to confuse you, but since I was just told this, here's no10
    (as far as I can remember)
    When a bike is imported in bits, 3kind of taxes have to be paid.
    But when an importer tells you that import tax has been paid, probably it is only 1 kind or 2.
    Once the first 2 have been paid, you can go to city hall to pay the 3rd.
    This allows you to ride the bike(and not get it confiscated)
    It does not,however, make it road legal, so you can still get done by the traffic police, for no lights, or whatever, even if its in your truck at the time.

    I too would like to know the facts
     
  11. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Tom & Alrikki

    You could also try these guys
    Nithipat Kongkatong
    Fair & Easy Co., Ltd.
    http://www.fairandeasy.co.th/logistics/
    1091/219 Soi New Petchburi 33,
    New Petchburi Road, Makkasan,
    Ratchathevee, Bangkok 10400
    Phone : +66-2-651-6581-83
    Fax : +66-2-651-6318
    Mobile: +66-81-422-4995

    who look after temporary imports, but also supposedly claim to be able to arrange legal import as well.

    Paying the taxes will be "easy."

    The crunch is getting your bike registered.
    The bike has to pass the emission control test & that sometimes takes months just waiting in the queue, let alone passing the test. The emission control test is the killer & that's why you don't see many new legal registered big bikes - because they can't pass the emission control test.

    If if was that easy & economical guys, the Thais would importing the bikes themselves by the thousand, registering them & selling them. But it does not happen.
    So I honestly don't like any farang's chances of outsmarting the system, because the locals who speak read & write the language & "know the law & how it works" don't do it. And we don't know better.

    Ask Backdoorphil how he's going with his KTM rego.

    So the solution is always to buy local, & hopefully already with a plate / book - new or recycled.

    Just my 25 satang's rant. :)
     
  12. KZ

    KZ Ol'Timer

    I bought a VTR250 with invoice in BKK. No license plate. Wanted to ride it home to Hua Hin. Got stopped by the brown boys. Showed them the stack of invoice papers. Was told that it is illegal to assemble a bike from imported parts. In other words my bike should not exist. They talked about impounding it. Then it was 5,000 baht. I called a thai speaking friend. It took about a half hour on the phone to get the fine down to 2,000 baht.
    In Hua Hin I went to a big bike repair shop that also arranges green books. Talked them into giving me a red plate with thai letters and Hua Hin 6-027. Never got stopped or paid anything for two years.
    Tried to get the bike legal, would have paid 50,000 baht for it, but didn't do it because I didn't trust the people who said they could do it.
    Sold the bike.
     
  13. TonyBKK

    TonyBKK Ol'Timer

    Would you really do such a thing? Sure, it might get you past the regular traffic police, but if you ever get caught up in one of the Customs Police checkpoints I think you'd find yourself in a tough spot if you show them a recycled book from a Kawasaki. They're not THAT dumb! :lol-sign:

    And what happens if you are ever in a serious accident with 3rd party injury or heaven forbid death and it comes to light that you're riding an illegally registered bike? The insurance company will be perfectly justified in denying you any coverage when they find out you are riding an illegal bike.

    Personally I'd rather pay one of the "pros" to buy me a "real" green book courtesy of some of the bent staff at the Land Transport Dept. Or, to put it another way, I'd rather pay more for a brand new green book than pay less for an illegitimate recycled book.

    Then again, I've never bought an unregistered bike in Thailand so it's not a problem I've ever had to deal with.

    Ride On!

    Tony
     
  14. TonyBKK

    TonyBKK Ol'Timer

    Agree- all about personal choice. That's why I live here! Personally I'd never risk it, but, "Up to you" as they like to say :happy5:

    Would you really do such a thing? Sure, it might get you past the regular traffic police, but if you ever get caught up in one of the Customs Police checkpoints I think you'd find yourself in a tough spot if you show them a recycled book from a Kawasaki. They're not THAT dumb! :lol-sign:

    And what happens if you are ever in a serious accident with 3rd party injury or heaven forbid death and it comes to light that you're riding an illegally registered bike? The insurance company will be perfectly justified in denying you any coverage when they find out you are riding an illegal bike.

    Personally I'd rather pay one of the "pros" to buy me a "real" green book courtesy of some of the bent staff at the Land Transport Dept. Or, to put it another way, I'd rather pay more for a brand new green book than pay less for an illegitimate recycled book.

    Then again, I've never bought an unregistered bike in Thailand so it's not a problem I've ever had to deal with.

    Ride On!

    Tony
     
  15. Tom Forde

    Tom Forde Ol'Timer

    Thanks for the address Tony, I will give them a call.
    Also all you guys with stamped frames etc (including myself on an old TTR Yammy) have you considered how you order OEM parts for a moderm motorcycle?
    You give them the frame/motor number. So you may end up with a gasket kit off an Africa Twin for your Suzuki Gisser!
    Also manufacturers like BMW have a world wide trace on frame/motor numbers all available to governments around the world.
    I would say KTM have a similar system, I would like to be a fly on the wall when it turns up as a Kawasaki, Phil.
    Unfortunately technology has caught up with the LOS.
    Cheers
    Tom :happy1:
     
  16. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Tom
    http://www.gt-rider.com/motorcycles-in- ... n-thailand
    Licence / Registering A Big Bike In Thailand
    If you buy a bike that is not registered record the engine & frame number to keep an exact record of your bike model for ordering parts later on when it does not have the same engine & frame number.
     
  17. monsterman

    monsterman Ol'Timer

    Recycled Books can be OK ...and Bangkok phil is going that route .....But i came a cropper once with a recycled book on an HD softail which cost 100,000 Baht to sort when selling the bike on ...my current Ducati had a BRAND NEW book when registered 5 years ago so no worries with that.
     
  18. TonyBKK

    TonyBKK Ol'Timer

    Sorry I'm confused...

    Bangkok Phil :?:

    "cropper" :?:

    :?: :?: :?:
     
  19. Captain Wally

    Captain Wally Ol'Timer

    To "come a cropper" is UK idiom for "to fail badly' - " to have an adverse outcome".
     
  20. brian66

    brian66 Ol'Timer

    Just a comment on what Tom stated. I have never heard of having to issue frame and engine numbers to order parts. I get all my motor cycle parts from Australia and I order through a couple of dealers in Perth who in turn get the parts from the eastern states of Australia using only the model and year of manufacturer.
    For my WR450 I just gave the year model. For the CBR1000 and the FZ1 Yamaha I do the same.
    I have purchased engine parts such as HRC cams for the Blade and some fairing rubbers and an ECU harness. I even ordered a whole set of fairing panels.

    For the WR, I ordered a new water pump shaft and seals, plus new fork seals and a side stand kit.
    I can’t imagine why you would need to issue the frame number and or the engine number to receive those parts or in fact any parts.

    Prior to moving to Thailand I have rebuilt many bikes from swing arm bearings, triple clamp bearings to motor rebuilds and gear box parts in Australia and Vietnam and never once had to supply the engine or frame numbers.

    As far as Thailand being up with the developed world in computer records and use.

    The local Thai vehicle registration people and in fact mostly all the government departments I visit, at least in my particular area of Thailand seem to have out dated computers and equipment and poorly trained computer people who tend to have endless copies of paper all over their desk to work with and rarely spend a few moments on a computer.

    I personally think their worldly computerized sophistication is still a long ways behind the developed world just yet.

    For example in Western Australia when you pay your yearly registration fees, you do it on the internet if you wish and nothing is sent to you to show on the vehicle. The only ID on the vehicle is the number plate. If the cops pull you over they do an instant computer check and all is revealed. Can you imagine that in Thailand?

    The Thailand registration system is a huge pile of papers that has endless copies and a so called green book.

    I don't think it is hard to pull the wool over the eyes of rural Thai officialdom and especially when there is a handsome tip inside the wool.
    That way of doing things ensures that you don’t come a cropper!!! As someone said and it keep the system going in its old fashion way.
     
  21. Tubber

    Tubber Ol'Timer

    Maybe Tom is from the UK, most dealers used to insist on frame and engine numbers when ordering spares. Don't know if they still do.
     
  22. TonyBKK

    TonyBKK Ol'Timer

    Ha ha! Thanks for the English lesson! Come a cropper! Never heard that one before! (But I only speak AMERICAN) :mrgreen:

    FWIW if you try to order OEM parts direct from Japan they often DO require a frame number. Here in Thailand I've never been asked for that type of info when ordering parts for my Suzie of Kawi.

    As for Thailand's IT progress, seems to vary greatly depending on where you are.

    Here in Bangkok the drive through road tax is completely computerized- you just drive up, show them your green book / blue book + proof of required insurance and they collect your money, update your book and print out a new tax sticker in a matter of about 60 seconds. Try THAT in the USofA where it'll take you half a day waiting in line to accomplish the same task.

    Been quite amazed to see traffic cops with laptop computers at the smog checkpoints for trucks and buses in Bangkok as well. Apparently they are able to look up the criteria for different models of trucks/buses. Wonder if they actually do? Would slow down their collection of tea money methinks... :wink:

    In other GOOD NEWS, heard from a friend in the Thai police that the traffic police are running out of working speed guns. In typical Thai fashion they had a bunch of very high tech laser speed guns, but as they break there is apparently no budget to fix them! :lol-sign:

    Love this country!!! :happy5:
     
  23. monsterman

    monsterman Ol'Timer

    Lets face it .....just as there is more than one way to skin a cat , there is more than one way to register a bike in Thailand , some are illegal but work , some are just shady or dodgy others are grey areas and some are completely legal , most are time consuming and frustrating and confusing ......so pay yer money and make your choice in the lotto of Thai bureaucracy and dont cry if it comes back to bite you.
     
  24. Tom Forde

    Tom Forde Ol'Timer

    'come a cropper' in Oz means a total f**k up or like 'come a cropper on that corner'.
    No I ain't a Pom.
    And yes BMW often ask for motor/frame no's when ordering parts. (In NSW anyway) Thats New South Wales for non Aussies.
    I will continue investigating this little puzzle.
    Too many Ferangs in LOS that don't speak strang!
    Cheers 'Aussie' Tom. :!:
     
  25. Captain Wally

    Captain Wally Ol'Timer

    Total f**k up is what I said, (although more politely). Most Strine language was originally imported by the Poms which is why we understand em but USAnians like Tony don't. :wtf:

    I haven't found any shortage of strine speakers in LOS

    I ain't a Pom either :roll:

    Cheers
    Aussie Col
     
  26. Tom Forde

    Tom Forde Ol'Timer

    Ok, ok, I give in as usual the original content of a post is lost on abstract things!
    How do get my bike legal?
    Still haven't got a direct answer, or do I do what most ferangs are saying between the lines... f**k it, is it mai pen rai?
    See you on the road, the bike is only worth $6000A anyway.
    Thanks for the advise.
    Tom
     

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