Coolant Replacement Tips

Discussion in 'General Discussion / News / Information' started by DavidFL, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Something interesting I picked up surfing the web this morning, whilst tinkering with my next GT Rider map.


    Thanks to Dave Kimmey, Owner/President Engine Ice High Performance Coolant

    {Gadget Note: Motorcycle Newsgroups and Forums provoke nearly as many questions about cooling systems as they do oil choices. The following by Dave Kimmey is among the best explanations of the various types of coolant and their uses ever posted.} When you're ready to change coolant refer to this 'how to' page for Vulcan Classic & Nomad

    Dave Says,

    Since it's starting to warm up and you folks will be getting your bikes out of moth balls, I thought I'd take a minute to give you some information and education about antifreeze/coolant products as well as some insight as to what coolants actually are and what their true purpose is.

    Now, being from Engine Ice, I am a bit biased and I admit it. However, most all of the products on the market are excellent products, but each has various uses and applications for them. We produce Engine Ice for specific high intensity and high heat applications. It really is not designed as an “everyday” coolant; it is for racing or high temperature applications. However, it can be used as an everyday coolant with no problem

    There are two basic types of coolant/antifreeze, Ethylene Glycol (EG) and Propylene Glycol (PG) and then there are surfactant products such as Water Wetter from Red Line for example. All of the products mentioned are good products, just offering different things.

    Ethylene Glycol (EG) – This is basically your “Prestone” type of products. Maxima’s Coolinol, Pro Honda Coolant and Spectro Coolant are examples of this type of product. It is basically the same as the coolant/antifreeze product you can buy at the auto parts store, but “silicate-free.” This is important, don’t get the stuff from the auto parts store unless it’s silicate free. Most are pre-diluted for easy use; they are diluted with a more pure distilled water or deionized water (deionized water is explained below). This is better water than what you can buy at the grocery store.

    You really shouldn’t call an EG-based product a “coolant,” an “anti-boil” product would be more accurate. EG is made very cheaply and its primary purpose is to eliminate boil-over and to keep your system from freezing up. That’s basically it. It is not designed to actually reduce temperatures. If you are driving a car or a cruiser-type bike that does not have a temperature issue, these are fine products.

    Water Wetter - It is an additive product. Water Wetter is what is called a “surfactant.” What this means is that it reduces the surface tension of the water or in other words, it allows the water/fluid to “rub” closer to the metal allowing it to better draw off heat. Water Wetter works and it is good stuff. However, if you add it to an EG antifreeze product your results are minimal. It will reduce temperatures, but by only a small amount. Added to water, you will see a significant difference in temperature reduction. But it will not raise the boil point of the water nor does it offer any antifreeze protection. So your engine may run a bit cooler, but when it gets hot it will “spit out” the coolant before other products do. That is not good, because now you’ll have less coolant in the engine. Using more than the recommended amount (4 capfuls to a quart) is a waste and it will not make any difference, only use their recommended amount.

    Water alone is not recommended. You do need to add some type of water additive to it. Water alone is corrosive and it does not keep your seals, gaskets, water pump and water pump impeller shaft lubricated enough. Make sure something is added to water, do not run it all by itself.

    I would not recommend Dex-Cool (the orange stuff). All reports and tests that I have heard of have not been good. It can "gel." It also has a tendency to clog up a motorcycle system. The radiator core and the system itself of a motorcycle is smaller when compared to an auto. I would avoid Dex-Cool and choose any other product before I'd recommend anyone using it.

    Propylene Glycol (PG) – This is what Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant and Evans Coolant is made of. Evans is 100% PG and has an extremely high boil point of well over 350oF. They recommend you make some mechanical changes to your system, such as a zero psi cap or a different radiator in order to use it. Their goal is to eliminate boil-over, not to reduce temperatures. At their recommended 100% PG use, you’d have a boil point in excess of 350oF. At 100% PG, it would not be as effective at dissipating heat from your engine as well as it has a higher viscosity. Water is the ultimate coolant. All coolant products are measured against water for its heat dissipation capabilities. The lack of water in the use of Evans greatly reduces its ability to cool your engine. If you’re running heavy equipment or an 18-wheel truck, Evans is probably a good product.

    Engine Ice is a diluted ratio of PG and Deionized water. The process of de-ionizing water eliminates all of the impurities that can do harm to your cooling system. Regardless if you are using tap, bottled, distilled, spring or R/O (reverse osmosis) waters, it can still contain minute particles of iron, magnesium, rust, lime and calcium. Many of these waters also contain chemicals, such as chlorine, fluorides and acids. Want proof? Take two different brands of distilled waters and perform your own taste test. They each taste different don’t they? If water were water, why would they be different? It’s because of the varying amounts of chemicals and minerals in these waters. These minerals and chemicals are what is the cause of scarring, scaling and mineral build-ups in your cooling system. Many also attribute these minerals and chemicals to water pump seal and gasket failures.

    Engine Ice was developed and tested in the heat and humidity of Southern Florida. Tests have proven to reduce operating race temperatures by as much as 50oF in some situations. PG is a lubricant and is a surfactant in itself, meaning it has more capability to draw away more heat than EG-based products and even Water Wetter. It is biodegradable and non-toxic. It will not kill your dog, nor will it kill the plant life at your favorite track or trail. It is also legal in AMA, CCS and FUSA road racing.

    Engine Ice has won over 275 National Championship Titles over the last two and a half years including the 2001 AMA 125cc West Supercross Championship with Ernesto Fonseca on the Yamaha of Troy YZ250F and in 2002 Chad Reed in the 125cc West Supercross Championship. You can bet that Yamaha Motor Corporation did extensive testing on Engine Ice prior to putting in into their premier bike in its debut year. It is also used an endorsed by the American Suzuki Amateur Motocross Program. Engine Ice sponsored racer, Darren Luck, won nine (9) CCS class championships in 2002 as well as earned the CCS Florida Expert #1 plate by the largest margin ever. Racers using Engine Ice won seven CCS Race of Champions National Championships at Daytona in 2001 and won an additional eight (8) in 2002.

    As for flushing the system, we recommend a very simple and cheap radiator flush.
    Go to your local grocery store and buy "White Distilled Vinegar" and mix that 50/50 with some distilled water.
    Fill the system with the 50/50 mix, run the bike until warm, let cool, drain and then run clear water through to wash out the vinegar. It's the same idea as cleaning your coffee maker. The vinegar is acidic enough to remove any scale or impurities, but not so harsh that it will harm your delicate seals and gaskets.

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  3. Ian Bungy

    Ian Bungy Ol'Timer

    Hi David,
    Where do we Buy this Engine Ice then? I am Ok as mine are all Air Cooled but some of the Guys may want to know. Interesting to see the different things People search the Web For???
    Cheers Ian.
  4. mikerust

    mikerust Ol'Timer

    Looks like worth doing but another minefield? Amsoil makes Propylene Glycol is Amsoil here in LOS. It would seem that if the water does the cooling them the more water the better but then the boiling point is lowered. My bike never gets much about 90C so in theory I don't need anything except the corrosion inhibitor, Distilled water?.
    Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant

    See Retail Pricing Information OR Request a Quote From Us

    Package sizes include:

    1-Gallon Bottle
    1-Gallon Bottles (case of 4)
    55-Gallon Drum

    AMSOIL ANT is a Propylene Glycol based fluid that is considered GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe).

    AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant (ANT) is formulated to provide benefits far beyond those found in today's conventional antifreeze and coolant products. This revolutionary formulation provides maximum antifreeze and cooling protection in the most extreme temperatures and operating conditions. And unlike conventional ethylene glycol based products, which are highly toxic and even fatal, AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is formulated with propylene glycol. It is biodegradable and requires no special disposal costs or procedures in most areas. Above all, its low toxicity limits the threat to children, pets or wildlife.

    AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides even greater benefits:

    Lasts Longer
    AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant contains a proprietary poly organic acid technology. It eliminates the need for supplemental coolant additives and recharging cooling systems. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides extended service life in all gasoline and diesel vehicles. It can be used for seven years or 250,000 miles in passenger cars, light-duty trucks, vans and recreational vehicles. It lasts seven years or 750,000 miles in over-the-road diesel trucks. Also for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and closed marine applications. AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant lasts longer than conventional products.

    Compatible With Other Fluids
    AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is dyed neutral yellow and is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel antifreezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.

    Stops Leaks
    AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant adheres to metal. It self-seals hairline cracks in welds and seams to prevent leaks, without additional stop-leak products or fibrous materials.

    Prevents Metallic Corrosion
    Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion. It plates metal to protect even when exposed to acids and salt spray. Standard allowances for loss in aluminum and solder are less than 60 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant lost 0 mg in aluminum and less than 6 mg in solder. Standards for iron, steel, copper and brass allow a maximum loss of less than 20 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant never exceeded a 3 mg loss in any of those metals in a testing period that was run for 10 weeks, three weeks longer than required tests.

    • Formulated for heavy duty and automotive applications

    • Also good for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and some marine applications

    • Extended drain intervals

    Up to seven years or 750,000 miles in Class 8 vehicles

    Up to seven years or 250,000 miles in pleasure vehicles

    • Universal compatibility

    • Safe, biodegradable, non-toxic, non-polluting

    • Aluminum engine block compatible

    Meets Automotive and Heavy Duty Service Specifications:

    • ASTM D-6210 • ASTM D-3306 • ASTM D4985-98 • ASTM D 6210-98

    Composition by Weight:

    Total glycols, = 92 percent

    Corrosion inhibitors and antifoamants, = 3 percent

    Water, > 5 percent

    Boiling Point (sea level):

    219° F at 40 percent concentration, 222° F at 50 percent, 225° F at 60 percent; increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi radiator cap is used

    Rating: --
    If you are in the market for coolant, I would definitely look into Engine Ice. The viscosity is much lower than some other popular PG performance coolants on the market, which makes it more suited for a turbo application. The advertised boil over point is 256 degrees with a freeze point of -26 F. NB (MikeRust) This is confusing a the two figures don’t compute 94% to get the boiling point and 52%-ish to get the freezing point. Anyway its seems like the vinegar flushing is worth doing. See Below

    Performance: See Below
    The true performance level of a fluid is hard to judge. Cylinder head temperatures (CHT) were lower at idle than with ethylene glycol (EG) coolant. Whether or not the fluid is capable of exchanging heat any faster then EG I cannot say. The base for Engine Ice is propylene glycol (PG) which is a less toxic base than conventional coolants. During a conversation with Mr. Kimmey, the president of Clyclelogic, it was recommenced that I do a coolant flush with a solution of 1:1 distilled water and distilled vinegar. I almost skipped the flush, due to how clean my coolant came out and the fact I flush my coolant every 18 months/15,000 miles. Despite that, I took the time and added 3 liters of distilled vinegar and 3 liters of distilled water to the cooling system. With the system full of the flushing solution I let the car idle for 8 minutes and then 3 additional minutes with the heater on max. The amount of debris and contaminant that came out was amazing/frightening. After you run the flush through the car, open both drains and remove as much of the solution as you can. Then I suggest you run through at least 15 liters of distilled using the same 8/3 minutes method described above. With that done again open both drains and let the system thoroughly drain. All that's left now is to add the coolant. My car took just shy of 6 liters which worked out to 3 bottles, however you may want to buy 4 just to be safe.
    219° F at 40 percent concentration, 222° F at 50 percent, 225° F at 60 percent; increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi radiator cap is used
  5. monsterman

    monsterman Ol'Timer

    also make sure the new coolant is NON SILICATE or you will destry the water pump.
  6. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Here's yet another interesting one to look at

    Evans Cooling Systems

    EVANS NPG™ COOLING is a new technology, a system initially developed for cooling race engines to reliably increase power. It does that and much more. It's a racing-tested engine-cooling breakthrough! The technology is centered around a revolutionary new coolant, non-aqueous propylene glycol (NPG). In addition to our own race teams and testing programs, NPG technology has been proven in many different racing vehicles, street machines, trucks and motorcycles. Evans NPG has been run in 2000 HP drag cars, cross-country vintage racers big block modified cars. EVANS NPG has also been proven invaluable in all makes of Motorcycles; Exotic high horsepower racing bikes to 1500cc, 6 cylinder touring bikes.

    The benefits of Evans NPG coolant for motorcycle engines
    Tested and proven in high performance racing bikes and street machines
    Contains no silicates
    Protects from boil-overs
    Permits increased compression without detonation
    Eliminates scale & corrosion
    Permits more spark without detonation
    Compatible with all metals even magnesium
    Legal in major racing organizations:
    AMA American motorcyclist association)
    Ccs (championship cup series)

    Lifetime coolant
    100% coolant - no mixing needed
    Will not freeze
    Essentially non-toxic
  7. mikerust

    mikerust Ol'Timer

    Hmmm 370 deg boiling point[8D]no more worries about BKK traffic[?]

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