Engine Ice Coolant

Discussion in 'Technical' started by DavidFL, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Well it's definitely hot season & I was wondering how to baby the young AT a bit more. So does anyone have any experience of this super coolant

    Engine Ice

    http://www.engineice.cc/index.html

    1. Does it really work?
    2. Is it worth it?
    3. Can you buy it in Thailand?

    :oops: :oops: I thought I might have asked about this before, but can't find it. Naughty search engine or is it just silly old me? Apologies if someone else turns up a previous post.
     
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  3. BignTall

    BignTall Ol'Timer

    I bought some stuff that over here in Thailand that supposedly does the same thing......Damn....I thought I had a picture of it but so far have not loaded the Cambodia/Laos trip pics onto Smugmug that has it.

    It's in a plastic small bottle about 6 ounces, white and blue bottle. I got mine from Luang Nuad's motocross shop in CNX there on the road next to the Mae Ping. I put it in the Yamaha YZF and the KTM. Do I notice a difference? Not really. But I did not have my trick infrared thermometer or temp strips from my car racing to confirm any temp change decreases. I also had the waterpump seals fail on both bikes after trying it. Now both bikes had 5 year old seals so they may have been on the way out anyway. However a bit of a coincidence if you ask me.

    The Engine Ice sold in the states has not produced any seal issues so just not 100% convinced that the stuff I sourced in Thailand was up to snuff.
     
  4. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    BigNTall's experience with seal failure is NOT a coincidence. Those concentrated "wetting" agents are nothing more than surfactants/defoamers. They prevent microscopic bubbles from forming on the internal engine surfaces and in the coolant itself. Since air is a lousy conductor of heat, this allows the real heat removing stuff (liquid) a more thorough exposure to the engine block and head. Problem is most of this stuff has NO waterpump or seal lubrication properties at all. When mixed solely with distilled water, its for racing ONLY.

    I use the EngineIce and yes it does work. I have a 1st Gen FJR before they fixed the airflow and heat blowback on the '06 and later bikes. 1300cc will cook your nuts pretty quick and I can vouch that it dropped the temp gauge by 1 bar under contant load. This is no big deal, but where it really helps is when I am at a stoplight. Since the coolant is at a lower temp to begin with, the fan takes longer to come on and I can usually get moving before it kicks in. Before it would come on and roast me jewels for a minute or two.

    If you can't find the real EngineIce over there, you can make your own. Just buy a gallon of PROPYLENE GLYCOL based coolant, not the ethylene glycol stuff. Mix it at a 35-45% ratio to distilled water. Then add the proper volume of Justin's concentrated "wetter" per the bottle's instructions. This will give you the benefits of a non-toxic coolant with a good water ratio (higher specific heat), pump/seal lubrication, and surfactant/bubble prevention. Should work exactly like the EngineIce.
     
  5. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    Yes, as Rossi says "follow the directions". Mainly this means to do a very thorough distilled water flush before changing over to a propylene glycol based coolant. The ethylene and propylene dont like each other.
     
  6. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    DAVID, I have never tried the stuff but like yourself have read up on it and if you are ordering some then i would be interested in 2 bottles (should be cheaper on the transport), Its available from UNIQUE motorsport in Singapore.
    Allan
     
  7. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    Hi Mark. I would be interested in trying some purple ice. How much including EMS to Nakhon Pathom.
    Allan
     
  8. pseacraft

    pseacraft Ol'Timer

    I have zero experience with these products. In my offroading club here in the desert there is many a conversation about them for obvious reasons. The overall opine is to not waste your time with them. The problem being that trying to cool heat with heat is obviously a bad idea. Here most people will change out the radiator to one of larger capacity and efficiency, remove the thermostats, and change out the fan if so equipped. My brand new Jeep Wrangler has a higher flow fan installed. A few, namely the Patrols, will even add "spaces" under the hood (bonnet) hinges to increase airflow in the engine bay. Let's try that on a bike! :p

    I would look more into increasing the airflow either with a better fan or a more efficient radiator or both. More expensive but also more effective me thinks.
     
  9. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    PSE. I'm not sure why you posted really. The bigger rad etc are all good ideas. BUT the question was has anybody tried this and what was the result. If you havent tried it then ok.
    Some times all you need is to reduce tempertures by a small amount. Like in my case if i do sustained high speed riding on a hot thai day my warning light will come on. that is only 15 degress above optimum operating temp. so a 10 degree drop due to more effiecient cooling would do the job.
     
  10. pseacraft

    pseacraft Ol'Timer

    I posted because here in the desert where I work, I know many people who have tried said products. This is one of our popular topics around the camp fire after playing all day in the sand. Particularly this time of year as our weather is changing into the 8 month long hot season. I was just passing on what is the predominate opine from a group of enthusiasts who deal with much more extreme heating issues with regard to super coolants. Sorry you missed that connection.
     
  11. brian66

    brian66 Ol'Timer

    These add in cooling products are a marketing ploy that makes the manufacturers a lot of money and do not do anything to cool your engine.
    Every element on this planet, both liquid and solid has a boiling point. It just takes the right amount of heat to turn the liquid and solids into a gas. I will leave solids out of this as no one puts solids in a radiator.
    The bubbles you see when the liquid boils are part of the elements that make up the liquid, which boil at the lowest temperature, turning into a gas and separating from the remaining element/s of the liquid. The remaining element/s would eventually turn to gas also if the correct temperature is reached.
    Our common fresh water will boil at 100 degrees C at a pressure of approximately 14.7 psi. Which is the pressure considered to be at sea level.
    If you reduce, the pressure by moving higher than sea level the water will boil at lower temperatures. So if you ride your bike say 1500 meters higher than sea level your water will boil at about 95 degrees C.
    The coolant you add to your radiator will increase the boiling point for the mixture somewhere between 110 to 120 degrees c dependant on the mixed ratio you use, as it has a higher boiling point than pure water.
    You can even make those boiling point temperatures higher by creating more pressure in your radiator against the gases by sealing the system with a radiator cap that has a higher-pressure rating than 14.7 psi. However, this doesn’t cool the fluid in your radiator. It just stops it from boiling at that pressure and the temperature of the fluid goes up to whatever the radiator cap relief valve will allow the fluid to boil at. Therefore, that higher fluid temperature is less able to take the heat away from the metal components of your engine as the fluid is already very close to its boiling point and cannot absorb any more heat.
    This means every component of your engine is subjected to this heat and heat will eventually destroy the motor.
    Nothing changes the fact that the temperature of the coolant mixture, pure water or using the “ICE” type additives reaches a certain level due to the heat produced by the motor and the temperature of the air that is passing through the radiator and around the engine casings and is not controlled by the composition of the liquid.
    The fluid circulating through the motor absorbs the heat and the fluid then carries that heat around until the fluid is cooled by some means.
    The additives that make up the liquid in the cooling system have no way to remove the heat. They just carry the heat around until it is cooled.
    That job is taken care of by the size of the radiator and the temperature of the outside air.
    Therefore, the only way to make and engine run cooler is for cool air to pass through the radiator and around the engine casings.
    The first thing you do to a high performance motor cycle racing engine is to fit a larger radiator.
    You may have noticed in MotoGP that when they run the bikes in a hot country they remove the front mudguard and any other obstructions to the airflow. Conversely, when they run the bikes in a cold country they tape over some parts of the radiator.
    These bikes never use anything but distilled water in the radiators. No additives are ever used.
     
  12. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    The engine ice works for me. Next season I will flush and recharge with it again.
     
  13. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    These bike radiators are very small will increasing the thickness help with the heat?
     
  14. mikerust

    mikerust Ol'Timer

    David,

    Just got back from the Tiger Factory tour.

    The "factory" shop had MOTUL MoCool

    Same as Engine Ice 750b for 500ml they said would sell us for 650.

    If you can't find MOTUL in CMX I could make a special trip......

    [​IMG]
     
  15. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Mike. I might well try this out once I get back home to Cnx. Samoto in Cnx usually has a good range of Motul products so will look there.
     
  16. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    Cool. I got mine on the day for just 600b. not tried it yet but will let ya all know soon. Allan
     
  17. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    Well did it work :happy3:
     
  18. thaicbr

    thaicbr Ol'Timer

    Ray. I'm currently stuck in the UK waiting for a flight so i havent used it yet. As soon as i manage to get back i will update :lol-sign:
     
  19. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    Wow man that stinks
     
  20. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    I think I will pas on Engine Ice:

    Your bike will need 2 bottles of engine ice.

     
  21. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    Well I got a plan Stan:

    I'm installing a engine oil cooler and the Mo Cool.

    Let everyone know how it works out :happy3:
     
  22. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Getting the AT serviced now after Vietnam. I've decide to stay with what I've got & not try to tweak what's not broken. The young AT's got 260,000 kms up so I don't think the bike needs it. Actually I was concerned about some of the old seals. :? But I might explore the 2nd radiator fan option if I can get RobertH to divulge his secrets. :) :) Thinking out aloud I guess. : :mrgreen:
     
  23. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    I wouldn't be doing this if wasn't burning my legs while riding. :happy1:
     
  24. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    Ok added the oil cooler and the Mo Cool, bike is running cooler. But, it did not solve my problem finally hit me my legs are only 4 inches from the rear cylinder, The area where I have a problem now. The bike only heats up enough for the fan to come on if I, leave idling at light.

    I guess one option would be to put a switch on the fan.

    The other would be to make up a trim kit to direct the heat from the clyinder down and back. I was thinking of tow pieces of fiberglasss with insulation in between

    Any thoughts?
     
  25. mikerust

    mikerust Ol'Timer

  26. ray23

    ray23 Ol'Timer

    Thanks Mile that looks good and doable.
     

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