Honda CBR 250r

[mbox999]

TonyBKK;262994 wrote: Well, if the Ninjette 250R with it's ~33Hp at the crank is a slug, then the new Honda CBR 250 which only puts out ~26Hp at the crank is what exactly? A scooter dressed up to look like a sportbike? But no doubt it will sell well thanks to its low price and racy looks. Can't wait to see the Ninjette and Baby CBR go head to head.

The new CBR 250's 10-20% Hp deficit vis a vis the Ninjette is a huge handicap for a small-displacement motorcycle.

In the US the MSRP for the Ninja 250R and CBR 250 are identical- $3999. Add $500 if you want ABS on the CBR. No doubt it will sell well here in Thailand thanks to the cheaper price and Honda badge, but globally I don't think Kawasaki has to worry too much about losing their dominance in the 250cc niche. Now that Kawasaki finally has some competition in the 250cc market perhaps it will even push them to improve the little Ninja.

Ride On!

Tony

If thats true than the Boxer 250RS (actual 233cc) with its 18hp (dyno at the wheel) may not be that far off....and since the racing tune up brings it up to 21 hps (at the wheel) it comes even closer to the cbr250r . Yeah the topspeed will sure be faster on the cbr250 but hell for a sport'ish' bike this power is rather meager.

The ninja 250 r is a entry level sportsbike , the boxer 250 rs is a naked/allrounder bike , the klx 250 is an offroad bike , the d-tracker 250 a motard , but what is the cbr250r ? Not a sportsbike, not a naked bike....allrounder looks also different to me and sure no motard or offroad bike.
I am sure it will sell well here - but what is this bike?

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[KZ]

250cc is entry level - imagine a beginner who just made his/her license looking for a bike, or a father who's going to buy a bike for his son. Swing a leg over the Ninja and it's too much of a race bike, the seating position too extreme.
Look at the new Honda - more relaxed half upright position and when you twist the throttle you don't get scared. It looks (to some) even better than the Ninja, it definitely impresses the girlfriend and the neighbors. Most buyers won't even know the difference between a single and a parallel twin or will argue that the Honda is easier to maintain, is lighter and needs less gas.
Kawasaki got the sportsbike segment covered, why build a CBR that does the same? Even experienced riders who are looking for a cheap runabout may not want a sportsbike.

A relaxed seating position; an acceptable engine; no fancy equipment but a decent price; cheap to insure: that's a standard.
Add a fairing and you have the new CBR. It's a standard with a fairing.

 

[Ian Bungy]

There is a First Ride Article on the New CBR250 in the Motorcycle USA Magazine. They claim it is Good and within a few mph on Top speed of the Ninja! It is lighter than the Ninja so that Helps! Quotes below!
"Due to the bike’s internal gearing and slightly less power, the CBR is not capable of the same 90-plus mph top speed of the Kawasaki; the Honda tops out in the mid-to-high 80s. But Kawasaki’s Ninja 250 benefits from an additional cylinder and a 2000 rpm higher rev limit, so for the Honda to be within only a few mph is impressive".
"Think about turning and you’re at the apex. Then twist the throttle, lift your head and a perfect line through to corner-exit is easily achieved – the Honda just plain does every thing like… well, a Honda".
See the Full Article here:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/115/8729/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Honda-CBR250R-First-Ride.aspx?WT.i_e_dcsvid=1581654152
I will be interested to see the Shootout between the Ninja & CBR and if the Honda doesn't come out on top I doubt there will be much difference between them?

 

[mbox999]

KZ,Yes 250cc is indeed entry level ... the looks between ninja and cbr is something we can discuss forever - i like the ninja better but it is each to their own.
If i had to buy an beginners bike for Son - the d-tracker 250 should be great or if thats too large take the smaller d-tracker ?
I think the sales of the CBR250R come down to the fact that it is a Honda , if Lifan was written on the bike a lot of people would spit on it IMO.
Not saying that i dislike the CBR250R but i think a lot would have wished for a naked bike and than this performance (single cyl , 21 hp , good low rpm torque...) would be the perfect match too. It also explains to me why the Boxer's 250 (online)sales meanwhile quadrupled since Honda announced the 2 CBR's .. a lot of people were expecting/hoping for the VTR250 .
Still the question remains what is the CBR250R? A entry lever sportsbike? No ; A entry lever Naked Bike? No; A entry level motard ? No .....nor is it really a allrounder Bike .

Maybe it is a "entry level allround'ish bike that tries to be sport'ish in looks but actually hasn't got the sportsbike character".
How does that sound? Right? Or did i forget something?

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[KZ]

That article is a piece of fluff, trying to make the CBR look good. "Almost the same top speed" - even the CBR150 will reach 80mp/h!
The question is how long it takes to get there; the extra power of the Ninja will make quite a difference.
But speed isn't all and this is not the 600cc class.
People will buy this bike for the looks and the low price.
It'll take some customers away but will not be a real threat to the Ninja since anybody who wants some power will go for the Ninja.

 

[LivinLOS]

KZ;263046 wrote:
Kawasaki got the sportsbike segment covered, why build a CBR that does the same? Even experienced riders who are looking for a cheap runabout may not want a sportsbike.

A relaxed seating position; an acceptable engine; no fancy equipment but a decent price; cheap to insure: that's a standard.

Because its a CBR ?? Consider the brand lineage.. When has 'a relaxed seating position, an acceptable engine' been the design brief or spec on a true CBR ??

Compare it to the MC22, 4 pot 45hp 19k redline screamer.. Now that was a Baby Blade !! Even the NC29 400's and other small bore blades were in their own way a CBR. But a 22hp (wheel) single ?? with reviews of 'adequate torque' and the like ??

Its less a comment about the bike, which may be perfectly fine for its purpose.. But really is that CBR DNA ?? To me they should have gone with a VFR moniker, a combo sports touring brand they already have. Seems a perfect fit ??

 

[Ian Bungy]

What's the difference to a CBR150? I would hardly call that a Great Brand Lineage? And calling the Kawasaki 250 a Ninja??? That's more of an Insult!!! Who Cares I think the point is they are trying to Provide a Great Cheap Bike for the masses and Give them some pride in Ownership? I doubt anyone thinks they are going to Enter Moto3 with it!!!

 

[alrikki]

It looked like there's one for rent,in POP rentals, near Thapae Gate, between thapae rd and Loi Kroh rd,
so if you think its your dreambike, you can try before you buy

 

[brian66]

What category does the CBR250 fit into? I would say that it fits into the nice looking bike category and that it is a street copy of a racing bike. So it is for the buyer, the bike for whatever they purchased it for. It could be used for all types of riding depending on who you are. Does that make it a good bike?

All 250cc motor cycles other than the older 250cc two stroke race replicas and a few of the latest motor cross 250’s are totally under powered. To be blunt and for want of a better word, they can be described as “gutless” The Kawasaki 250 would not pull the skin off a rice pudding as eloquently spoken by Ian before on this thread and the rest of the 250’s would not “pull you out of bed”.

Only learners, people who don't know what proper power is or can't or will not ride fast, females and people who don’t have any money buy 250cc bikes. That is because they are buying to the price and not for the bike. They consider paying for fuel and other costs.
You can still go to the shops on a liter plus bike so that is not an acceptable excuse.

My brother has ridden bikes since he was a teenager. Unlike me, he didn’t bother to get a license back in the days when it took 5 minutes and no testing. He has had many bikes over the past 50 years from 1100cc down to 400cc. I recently convinced him to get his license so he can ride with me in Thailand. He had to get a learners permit at 64 years old after riding for near on 50 years!!

He purchased what is called an ex250j in Australia. A 250 Ninja to others. He took it home and rode it with his mates, all of whom are on large capacity bikes with the L plates attached as he is complying with the learner permit laws and one of his mates as the “Teacher”. (But in reality just riding with mates and no teaching is being done!!!)
He said he was so embarrassed at the power that after 2 days he took it back and sold it at big financial loss. He said he would wind the throttle to the stop, and then, “Wait and Wait and wait” and then give up. His mates had to always slow down to wait for him.

So he purchased a new VT250. He has ridden that for about two months now and he calls it the “sewing machine”. He said I feels slightly stronger in torque than the Kawasaki but it is hopeless. He has now ordered a new 675 Street triple and is going to “Risk it” without a license. In Australia that is a big Risk!!

So the new CBR250 Honda will be to some what they think of it and others will continue to buy what they want or can afford.

I ride the CBR250’s big brother and to me they look the same other than one is powered by a lawn mower engine and the other has a motor cycle engine.
To each his own I would say.

 

[mbox999]

Captain_Slash;263117 wrote: A bit difficult to give it a VFR moniker when its not a V4 engine though

How about calling it then CBR250 "super 1" CBR for a little sporty look, 250 for the cc, and "super 1" well, it is a single cyl thumper - a sports-thumper though .
I am sure it sells well here and it maybe a nice little bike for the Price too. Even the new CBR150r is an big improvment to the old one...
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[LivinLOS]

Captain_Slash;263117 wrote: A bit difficult to give it a VFR moniker when its not a V4 engine though

Current VFR's are v twins..

The sport VFR's (v4's and v2s) from NC23 NC30 RC30 and RC45 years.. All ended up rebranding to RVF while the VFR brand has become the touring uprights.

Yes its a stretch, but less of a one than CBR IMO, the VFR brand is now upright, tourquey, sport tourers.. Exactly this bike IMO.

 

[LivinLOS]

brian66;263122 wrote: What category does the CBR250 fit into? I would say that it fits into the nice looking bike category and that it is a street copy of a racing bike. So it is for the buyer, the bike for whatever they purchased it for. It could be used for all types of riding depending on who you are. Does that make it a good bike?

All 250cc motor cycles other than the older 250cc two stroke race replicas and a few of the latest motor cross 250’s are totally under powered. To be blunt and for want of a better word, they can be described as “gutless” The Kawasaki 250 would not pull the skin off a rice pudding as eloquently spoken by Ian before on this thread and the rest of the 250’s would not “pull you out of bed”.

I guess its also combines with a sense of disappointment tho.. Those old 2 strokes of 20 years ago (rgv, nsr, tzr etc) were putting out 45 or so hp some even over 50.. In a bike that weighed so little.. The CBR250 of old was 19,000 rpm redline 45 bhp little monster.. twin discs.. 200 kph.. etc etc.. Thats a CBR !! Even as a 4 stroke it had that kind of power.

And then 20 years of automotive development later we get ?? Half the horsepower and a learner bike ??

Again, it might be a great machine for what it is.. Its just hard to get the blood pumping over it.

 

[mbox999]

LivinLOS;263134 wrote: Current VFR's are v twins..

The sport VFR's (v4's and v2s) from NC23 NC30 RC30 and RC45 years.. All ended up rebranding to RVF while the VFR brand has become the touring uprights.

Yes its a stretch, but less of a one than CBR IMO, the VFR brand is now upright, tourquey, sport tourers.. Exactly this bike IMO.

Hi LivinLos, wow this is something i didn't know...they have now VFR's being v-twins?
I had 2 older vfr's in the past which were great ( but unfortunately no books) VFR 750FJ and VFR 750K ....both had V4 ....i thought VFR stood for ("V" and "four"?) ...what are those VFR models with the v2?

Thanks for the info,

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[KZ]

My VTR250 was a twin, that's for sure...
They should have brought in the old AX1, also called NX250 or "Dominator", from the early eighties. Watercooled four-stroke DOHC single, 29 hp, 130kg, good suspension.
Sad when 20 year old bikes are more tempting than brand-new ones...

 

[mbox999]

KZ;263143 wrote: My VTR250 was a twin, that's for sure...
They should have brought in the old AX1, also called NX250 or "Dominator", from the early eighties. Watercooled four-stroke DOHC single, 29 hp, 130kg, good suspension.

My VTR250 was a twin, that's for sure...
They should have brought in the old AX1, also called NX250 or "Dominator", from the early eighties. Watercooled four-stroke DOHC single, 29 hp, 130kg, good suspension.
Sad when 20 year old bikes are more tempting than brand-new ones...

it is indeed, now i found a good excuse why i am often finding myself riding older bikes

 

[LivinLOS]

mbox999;263140 wrote: Hi LivinLos, wow this is something i didn't know...they have now VFR's being v-twins?
I had 2 older vfr's in the past which were great ( but unfortunately no books) VFR 750FJ and VFR 750K ....both had V4 ....i thought VFR stood for ("V" and "four"?) ...what are those VFR models with the v2?

Thanks for the info,

mbox

I thought the current VFR800 was now a twin.. And that after the RC30 and RC45 racers they dropped V4 config for the more torquey twin config in the sport tourer ??

Is that memory / understanding wrong ??

 

[LivinLOS]

According to wiki it is wrong..

The bike I am confusing the VFR800 engine with is the VTR1000 'firestorm'..

 

[LivinLOS]

Yeah that makes perfect sense.. My balls up was I saw a VTR1000 (twin 100%) that had been painted so was unbranded.. And am sure he told me it was 800.

But my mistake 100%.. I really thought they moved the 800 sport tourer to the 2 cyl config.

Not seen one of the 1200s yet either..

 

[rosmoe]

:lol:Rented the CBR 250R at Pops at THA Pae Gate & took it for the day. Headed up 118 towards Chiang Rai. Great little bike!! Two up & plenty of power for the hills. At 100 KPH it is turning 6000 RPM's. Will cruise with ease between 65 & 70 MPH (still spend time in the states) & got around 78 MPG. Hit 85 MPH in a few spots in 6th gear, might go a little faster, but my girlfriend kept hitting me in the ribs to slow down. I ride a 150 CBR here in CM, so you must think that any bike would seem better. I have 1150 GS back in Calif. & have ridden a Yamaha FJR 1300 through Europe, so I have spent time on much faster bikes. You don't want to be hitting 150 MPH on any road in Thailand, so the 250 is a great bike for most of Thailands roads. Will see about getting one after the first of the year. Does anyone know where I can get a rear rack made up, I would like to add a top case to it. I don't think Honda will be coming out with one anytime soon.

 

[KZ]

Thanks for the riding impression! Guess it all depends on what one is used to - if you ride a big bike, this little Honda will be boring, but if you ride a Wave125 or a CBR150 this bike is a step up. I liked the little CBR150R but wanted better suspension, better tires, a bit more comfort; the new CBR150R has been improved and should be a good deal but it's still a "one-person" bike.
The 250 should be even better, 140km/h top speed is sufficient for lots of riders, and cruising 100-120km/h without wringing out the engine should do.
Even though many people are looking for a different style bike, the price of the CBR250R is extremely tempting, it will sell like hotcakes.
In a way I like it that it has a single - I prefer the sound of a single to the sound of parallel twins. Of course a 90 degree V-twin sounds best!