Proud owner of the new Mae Sa map...

Discussion in 'New Users' started by Chanchao, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. Chanchao

    Chanchao Member

    ...Now let's pick it apart. :)

    Nah, kidding, this is a great map. I was really in doubt if I should get the Mae Hong Son Loop map or this one (as it also covers Mae Sa but with less detail obviously) but in the end I went for the Mae Sa Map; realisitically this is the area where the most of my day trips will take place, so I went for optimum detail.


    So far haven't found any mistakes either.. But I do have already two preliminary suggestions for future editions:

    * On the road to Doi Suthep, it would be nice to also include the Bang Bua Ban and Pha Ngoeb streams/waterfalls/rocky outcrop there. These are popular picnic spots with locals, because they're free, unlike the bigger Montrathan Falls. Actually, when stopping at all these places, and the temple, and further up past the temple, then you can easily turn a simple 'Doi Suthep trip' into a day trip.

    * Optional: on the Road past Phuphing palace, after the fork where the left (Straight) road leads down to the Doi Pui Hmong souvenir market village so where you would turn right towards that San Ku temple ruin, then ther's somewhat of a viewpoint on the left. Just a dirt area, but big enough to stretch your legs and look at the view. You can see the souvenir village down from there. You could include that as a viewpoint. (Not sure if it qualifies)

    * What's with all the 'bicycle trails' !? Now you lose the distinction between a 'rough off road dirt track' and 'a true bicycle trail'. SOME of the bicycle trails are for sure very motorable even with a car/truck, for example the road from Chang Khian down to Huay Tueng Thao lake. Or Doi Kham temple to Ban Pong; That's far more than a bicycle trail. So my point is that you lose detail, you don't know anymore if it's truly bicycle-only, or if it's motorable and then to what degree.

    * You could list walking trails too. There's a trail that goes up from the end of Suthep road, off the road that goes to the back entrance of the zoo. And a path going down off the main road to some monk's/hermit camp-site. I think this is just after Doi Suthep temple, but before getting to Phu Ping palace. (not sure). Finally, new and nice footpaths/paved walking trails were constructed between Pha Ngoeb, Bang Bua Ban and then down to Huay Kaew waterfall.

    * Huan Huay Kaew restaurant is not on the map!!!! :) This is a brilliant place overlookign the lower end of Huay Kaew Waterfall, parking lot is just next to Khru Bar Srivichai shrine. It's a wooden/bamboo structure and an EXCELLENT place for some food & drinks after (or before) a trip to/from Doi Suthep. It's like an affordable version of Palad Tawan Ron.

    There's a "bicycle trail" going from past Doi Suthep Temple down to Montrathan Falls.. Is that track motorable? In a 4WD truck too? And: Would this beat the Montrathan entrance fee, saving me 50 baht or so? (20 + 30 for the car)

    Further down (or up?) from Montrathan falls is another waterfall indicated without a name. Is that worth visiting and how would you best reach it?

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  3. scot harper

    scot harper Ol'Timer

    Chancy, its great that you loved the map, now sunshine start exploring and tell us all the FAB places you've found, and the hip joints to Chang out in, no negative vibes, Or DavidFl will confiscate the map, happy exploring.
  4. Chanchao

    Chanchao Member

    YesSIR! :)

    Will have to wait until next weekend, of to Patters first, exploring that other Golden Triangle area as marked by the Dolphin Roundabout, Walking Street and Soi Bua Khao.
  5. Chanchao

    Chanchao Member

    One more question:

    When coming from South of town going towards Samoeng on 1269, a couple km BEFORE the T junction to Samoeng / Mae Rim, there's a dirt road that goes to Huay Pa Lao forestry station. The map shows the road ending there, but I think it continues further? Where does it go? (It's possible that I'm confusing this with a trail that's indicated as a rough 4WD trail a little further off 1269, going to the Hmong village of Buek Chan, but I don't think so because the road I'm talking about isn't that rough (easily motorable in the dry) and does lead to a big government/forestry setup with some small offices and trucks & equipment about. And that road definitely continues on for a bit (perhaps also splits but not sure)

    (Yes, yes, I know I should explore, but my personal family situation is such that every dirt road that I force the Missus on that does NOT turn out to lead to something worthy to be included in the 7 Great Wonders of the World, will result in some negativity coming in my general direction. :)

    So for example to 'Ob Khan': ok, worth it. Vast fields of golden flowers: check. 'San Koo ruin' .. ok somewhat acceptable, now let's go before the ghosts get us, etc.

    Speaking of Ob Khan: if that ad for some adventure tour company wasn;t there then it'd fit on the map wouldn't it? I think that would be a worthwhile thing to indicate on the map somehow.

  6. 2Up Chiang Khong

    2Up Chiang Khong Ol'Timer

    Hi Chanchao.

    (Hi Chanchao I've edited the first couple of paragraphs in my original comment, becasue it was too strong and my opologies to you and others for that. I will though, let the last couple of paragraphs stand as they were orignally written).

    You might want to consider Scot's comments and take them to heart.

    Please consider who buys the map. We that ride are a Very Small portion of the Map sales. Therefore David tries to include places of interest for a wider range of interest then just ourselves. And he can not include all the good spots, because if he did then the map would become too messy. Plus he tries to be very spot on with marking locations and unless he actually goes there or one of us gives him GPS could he include this?

    And if the map was Spot On for everything - what would you have to explore? Come on - go do some exploring on your own. You say you need something "worthy" at the end of the road. Isn't you and your wife sharing together, "worthy" in and of itself?? And zero need to "force the wife" with dirt roads; there are a zillion good roads for 1-3 hour easy trips around Chiang Mai.

    Get out and have some great times riding. Drink some cold ones with the guys (and girls) and learn the how, where, why and when - and then see if the comments in your post are still valid.

    Cheers & good riding,
    David and Mai
    Chiang Khong
  7. Chanchao

    Chanchao Member

    Ok, now I feel misunderstood.

    1. The map clearly states in a separate box that suggestions or corrections are appreciated, that's how I found this forum in the first place. (I knew about the site, not that it included such an active forum.) The map even includes a link to '' especially for this purpose! If that is not the case then fair enough.

    2. Why do so many people feel I'm being critical? I've said I think it's GREAT map TWICE, and have touted it on the forum to gain attention for it. As you may know, if you do a post on such a forum and it's ONLY positive then it will be assumed you're somehow in bed or in business with the author/distributor, so it needs some balance, also to result in actual discussion which will attract even more people. Why do you suppose so many people love watching Top Gear on the BBC.. it's not because they're so positive all the time! And yes I'm on the Lonely Planet forum a lot as well, where I regularly recommend this site and when opportunity arises I will definitely recommend this map, as well as the MHS loop and Laos maps.

    3. "Possibly you could reconsider and do some positve postings" Come *ON*. Didn't my post mention that I found *NO* mistakes, and didn't I make suggestions of a couple of good places to add to the map? If that's not contributing/being positive then I don't know what is. And if it's not possible for technical/print reasons then fair enough of course. I thought I was genuinely being helpful, I hope this post clarifies that. (And I think I know the author well enough to know that he would appreciate comments, even criticisms when valid. The one (ONE) criticism I had was about the bicycle trails, it makes it look like the road down to Huay Tueng Thao is tricky, but any plain 2WD pickup would have no trouble with it (in the dry especially)

    4. Slash!!!! :) " Chanchao, what are doing on this site?" : Same as you and everyone else I think? I might actually have a thing or two to contribute, having toured around the North for 12 years or so. (Though touring around my desk & a baby cot far too much currently I'll readily admit)

    Back to the Lonely Planet forum I guess... :p

  8. scot harper

    scot harper Ol'Timer

    Chanchy, I took your advice a couple of years ago on where to get a Khao Soi in chang mai, thanks, M8 I thought that you'd have the north wired by now?
    Keep the posts coming, don't give in that easy,and mention all cheap eats on you travels.
    Chanchy, you may have to leave the love of your life at home, and ride with your chang skull'n mates.
    They may be but ugly, but you won't cop any stick about a bumpy road or a dose of monkey but, after a long day in the saddle.
    Scott...I'd rather be their than here!!

    PICO-PICO Ol'Timer

    To be honest, I am slightly shocked about such animosity flowing here.
    I would have thought that David himself is man´s enough not to need defense and that he will accept comments / suggestions graciously, THINK ABOUT THEM , use them or disregard them. I am sure this latest map or, for that matter..... any map published under his name is NOT the result of one man alone, I am sure there has been input from 3rd parties before.
  10. BignTall

    BignTall Ol'Timer


    I believe your comments are very much appreciated. I know David is always open to corrections on his map as he takes great pride in providing the best ones out there. Input such as yours helps him attain that goal.

    Trails are marked on the conservative side in terms of conditions for safeties sake I'm sure. Most people that use the map are not hardcore motorbike riders and I believe David takes this into account when describing the routes to add a margin of safety. Weather over here also plays a huge role in conditions of dirt tracks making it easily passable one day and a swampy mud pit another.

    Like you I would like to see more off road and hiking trails included. I would also love a bevy of beauties waiting on me hand and foot. Alas we can't have it all. If you have a GPS and could provide David tracks of those missing dirt trails I'm sure he would appreciate it to include on the next addition.

    Any way great feedback Chanchao.
  11. Pikey

    Pikey Ol'Timer

    Yep, I can't really see a problem with what you have said above Chanchao - adding local knowledge via "constructive critisizm".

    DavidFL puts a heap of work into all his maps over a long period of time and I doubt it's a "well paid" job but I reckon he respects most input (but maybe I'm lining myself up for a kick in the bollocks when he gets back from Hongsa [B)]).

    I have been following TV for a couple of years and reckon your inputs there have been pretty spot on and helpful. Like you said - you were misinterpreted and from my view you added constructive stuff. That's the beauty of this board - pretty laid back, locals and overseas people can contribute without fear of (too much!) retribution. Never knew you were a bike fan though? Keep an eye on the "events" forum and make yourself known at one of the MotoGP meets - good fun and if you are really lucky, you might see me get so pissed that I fall down the stairs (ain't that right B&T? [;)])

    Cheers to all,

  12. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Good to see you on the GT Rider board mate. I bet you got a bit of a surprise with the volume of quality touring info for North Thai eh?
    Now to your post - NO complaints from me for your constructive suggestions!

    1. Yes on the next map I should include the missing attractions / points of interest - Bang Bua Ban, Pha Ngoeb, Huan Huay Kaew – as you suggested.
    2. Bicycle trails, the idea here was to promote cycling on & around the loop. The trails came from Tom Matty at Top Gear & were his GPS tracks. I decided to omit the kms to leave some adventure element in for the 1st edition, but they will be included in the MarkII version.
    3. Motorable bicycle trail on Doi Suthep I personally don’t like showing or promoting as I’m still a bit of a greenie (believe it or not) & I honestly don’t think people should be driving their 4WDs (& motorbikes0 all over the ”sacred” mountain. You will never see me riding the dirt trails on a motorbike or car up there, as I believe it is a far too sensitive issue. Plus when I go for a ride on my bike I like to really get away from Chiang Mai for the day & there are lots of other trails 30-40 mins out town to explore.
    Also if you’ve got a big 4WD I don’t think it should be too much trouble to determine whether it is 4WD or bicycle only – that’s the reason you have a 4Wd isn’t it – to go & explore the rough stuff?
    4. Walking trails I could list but I would have to go walk ‘n GPS ‘em myself & motivation could be a significant problem in terms of increased map sales.
    5. The Doi Kham - Ban Pong road used to be a lovely cycle trail, & yeah they improved it, but I decided to leave it for this map & try to promote the cycling aspect.
    6. The San Ku viewpoint qualifies if you get a nice view.
    7. The other missing stuff I don’t really know, but you never get it all first time round & that is why I appreciate your comments so much.


    P.S. This reply was a SLOW 1 finger typing special with the left arm in plaster!

    PICO-PICO Ol'Timer

    P.S. This reply was a SLOW 1 finger typing special with the left arm in plaster!

    I was wondering about that,man ..... would have taken me 5 days plus 1 million typos[:D]
  14. Klaus

    Klaus Ol'Timer

    Hey Chanchao, I just saw your handle today, and what a surprise to see you on this board! And definitely a positive one. Boys and girls, I've been reading Chanchao's posts on the lonely planet for years and must say that he is very informative, always spot on and always uses friendly language. I consider him a friend even though we never met - hopefully one day we will! Sorry about the confusion earlier, I didn't read the whole thread, yet.
    btw, my handle on the thorntree is "The Coffee Garden", since I had one here in town years ago.
    Good to have you in this forum, 'chao old chap!
  15. Pee Jim

    Pee Jim Member


    I know you from the LP Thorntree and your CM food website so went tonight to Huan Huay Kaew restaurant with some confidence in your recommendation.

    It was really, really good. Great setting and good live music.

    Cheers mate - nice one.

  16. Pikey

    Pikey Ol'Timer


    Thought you were used to one-handed typing after all those nights of internet porn surfing when singer g/f has gone to bed? [;)]

    Seriously, do you want some of my biking DVDs or others to ease the boredom? Drop me a mail and I'll reply with a list if you are interested.

    BTW, am back in CNX 2 days early from our offroad trip due to hitting a tree root which was concealed by leaves & other trail rubbish. Nowhere near the same league as you as I just ended up upside down (par for the course with me) but got a severely tweaked ankle where the bike followed through and I could not get my MX boot on this morning. Amazing how that one moment you can be toodling along quite happily then all of a sudden, a hidden obstacle can turn your day into ratshit in a blink! [B)]

    Cheers & mend soon,

  17. DavidFL

    DavidFL Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry to hear about your spill. Yeah it always happens when you least expect it, just toodling along smelling the roses. Now perhaps we should get together with a side car outfit & harass Armin on the go kart track?
    No need for the DVDs yet, but as I've got a few months to go, reckon that you will be getting a call, sooner rather than later. But have you got a DIY by Dr Costa by any chance? Could be well & truly interested in that one.
  18. Chanchao

    Chanchao Member

    > Never knew you were a bike fan though?

    Well... . . . . . I'm a big fan of touring in remote places in Thailand, whatever the vehicle. I once bought a fairly big Kawasaki 700cc chopper-like job, which was really cheap, and as I found out for good reason. :) Still it allowed me to learn to ride 'a big bike' as opposed to the usual 100-125cc mopeds. I didn't really ride enough though, so the thing then collected dust, and with the battery or electrics being more than a little iffy, it then went into a coma after not using it for some time. I had shops revive it a couple of times when I got the urge, but the last time I did that is already 2-3 years ago.

    So if anyone's interested in a pretty heavy bike that needs serious loving attention then shout. It's cheap. :)

    Excellent points from Davidfl above on the 'green' aspect!! I never knew!!! :) Of course I wouldn't go bashing in the forests, but I think roads that are actual 'roads' (in that they're used regularly by hilltribe people in their Toyotas to get to the village or the field) are reasonably fair game. But totally respect your point, and indeed I have to admit that a bicycle is a much better way for forest trails in national parks.

    > Also if you#8217;ve got a big 4WD I don#8217;t think it should be too much trouble
    > to determine whether it is 4WD or bicycle only #8211; that#8217;s the reason you have
    > a 4Wd isn#8217;t it #8211; to go & explore the rough stuff?

    It seems I have it for the specific purpose of getting stuck in far less accessible places. :)


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