Touring Tyre test for all brands

Discussion in 'General Discussion / News / Information' started by charlieman, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. charlieman

    charlieman Member

    The tests are a tough battle, the great result of the test carried out by the prestigious German Magazine "Motorrad" (2010-05) on Touring Tyres.

    And Angel ST is the Test Winner

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Loading...


  3. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    Thanks for that, very nice eval. Have to agree completely with the Angel ST comments. I was a diehard fan of the Diablo Strada for years and was not happy when Pirelli announced it's discontinuation in favor of the "new and improved" Angel. In my prior experience, most of that is marketing hype and you end up taking a step backwards in many cases.

    Not so with the Angel. Pirelli really did their homework on this one and it suits the FJR perfectly. Most surprising is how well it works on the FZ1. I was thinking that bike would need more of a supersport/race compound to really shine, but the Angel has been fantastic at everything I have thrown at it (no track days or anything though). Highly recommended as an all-round solid sport riding tire.
     
  4. Ian Bungy

    Ian Bungy Ol'Timer

    I fitted the Pirelli Angel ST to My Triumph Tiger and was Amazed at the Difference!!! Brilliant!!! I did Fit a New Ohlins Shock around the Same time Which made a Massive improvement to the Handling. Both combined Transformed My Tiger. Much Happier!!! :thumbup:
     
  5. charlieman

    charlieman Member

    :) Pirelli Angel is the best for Touring tyres
     
  6. Franz

    Franz Ol'Timer

    Charlieman, thanks for the informative post. Using Diablo Rosso's on the FJR right now which give me a very high confidence. The set of Diablo Strada lastet longer but were not exactly tailormade for my style of riding, back to unstable and front loved to slip a little. Currently I can get 5500kms on the front and 6500kms on the back on the Rosso's, also changed the back from 180 to 190 dimension which gives the big fella even more grip in turns. Next one I'm gonna fit are the Angel ST as Feejer and Ian stated that they are very happy with their performance. For me the question will only be: how many more kms can I get out of them ? :wink: Well, time to inform Yamaha Square to get one set for me soon....... :smile1: , regards, Franz
     
  7. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    Franz,

    Regarding your experience with the Strada being unstable in the back on the feej. I wonder if the shop mistakenly or intentionally (non-E is $20 cheaper) fitted the wrong version. You may or may not know that there was an "E" model made specifically for the FJR and other heavier ST bikes. The "E" version has 2X more reinforcement on the sidewall vs. the standard Strada. I was dumbfounded for about a week after having a new one installed why the bike felt squirrelly and I couldn't figure it out.

    Finally a smart tech at the other dealership took a look at my bike and said "they sold you the wrong tire" and showed me the spec callout in the manual. I pulled my reciept and it said "E" on it, but the tire was not an "E". Took it back and they said yep, we messed up but we don't have in stock, so have to order. Finally got the "E" back on there and good to go and stable as a rock again. I think they didnt have in stock and just installed the regular one not thinking I would notice. Wrong.

    Never noticed any front slip with them either, but our tarmac is way different over here. I had to really adjust when in the GT, especially up by Mae Salong. A few pucker moments were had up there. So I totally understand why you would want a softer/stickier compound over there, cheap insurance and I would do the same for aggressive riding in the GT.
     
  8. Not on a Yamaha

    Not on a Yamaha Ol'Timer

    The Angels are indeed a very good touring tyre.
    They last well and offer good grip. I am now into my second set of Angels. Recently tested them to the fullest in the wet. The feedback from the tyres is superb.
     
  9. Franz

    Franz Ol'Timer

    Thanks Feejer & NOAY ! Will definitely fit the Angel ST on the FJR. Feejer how many kms could you get out of one set ? Diablo Strada were also unstable at the front, any clean smooth asphalt or concrete surface gave me the creeps. Luckily had the new Rosso's on it while doing a burst with Tony in Nan and on to Phayao early this year and could straight away notice the difference. Cheers guys, Franz
     
  10. feejer

    feejer Ol'Timer

    Strada and Angel about the same as far as tread life. When I lived in cool and wet Seattle, I could get a bit over 10000 km on a rear and about 16000 km on a front. But now that I'm here in hot and dry California, that is down to about 8000 km rear/12000 km front. Still pretty good considering how well they perform.
     
  11. Not on a Yamaha

    Not on a Yamaha Ol'Timer

    Just been on track with the Angels. Dropped the tyre pressure to 30 psi front & rear. Surprisingly they hold pretty well once they are nice & warm.
     
  12. cdrw

    cdrw Ol'Timer

    Thank you for the info....my F650GS will need new shoes in a few months.
    Seems like Angels are they way to go...
     
  13. Ian Bungy

    Ian Bungy Ol'Timer

    Hi cdrw,
    Sorry Mate the Angels are for fast Touring and Heavy Sports Bikes not the F650GS. What You want are the Pirelli Scorpion Trail I believe? You can Check them out here:
    http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/tyres-cat ... fault.page
    These are the best all Rounder for Your kind of Bike! They are fitting them now to all the Big so called "Adventure Bikes". Enjoy them, I am sure they will work Great for You!
     
  14. KZ

    KZ Ol'Timer

    Franz, you wrote: "...changed the back from 180 to 190 dimension which gives the big fella even more grip in turns."
    I'm not a tire specialist, but as far as I know a bigger tire does not improve grip but it changes the way the bike leans in turns. The tire may be bigger but the contact patch does not increase, given the same tire pressure and weight of the bike/rider.
     
  15. Franz

    Franz Ol'Timer

    Hi Klaus, no, you get more surface area the tyre has on the road, simple mathematics, although the increase is not much it is what I needed. BTW you are right about as how the bike leans into a turn, this is an even bigger improvement.

    Hi Jay (CDRW), Ian's right about the Angels they are for sport & sportourers. For the F650 there's the Pirelli Scorpion Trail and the Metzler Tourance and Tourance EXP. I used the toruance on the F650 and they gave good grip both in dry and wet conditions and lastet long. I'm not that happy about the Scorpion Trail on the DR650, they are crap in the wet but in the dry they are perfect, never ridden them real offroad, though on dirt roads they were ok.

    Rgds, FR
     
  16. brian66

    brian66 Ol'Timer

    Changing from a 180 mm tyre to a 190 mm tyre can produce some interesting results.
    Especially if you change brands.
    In the past, I have used Pirelli Diablo Super Corsa SP. Dunlop Qualifiers and now I use Michelin power one.
    All 190/50 on 17-inch rims. Because of the triangular construction profile, the Dunlop’s were about 5mm narrower. (185mm) The Pirelli and Michelin were both about 5 mm wider before fitting.
    The difference in width between a 180 mm and a 190 mm tyre can be from 0 mm to 20 mm depending on the manufacturer.
    A 180 mm tyre can measure 170 mm or even 190 mm.
    For example, a Pirelli 190/55 may have a different width to a Michelin 190/55 of anywhere from a couple of millimetres to up to 20 millimetres. But you can be almost positive neither tyre will be 195 mm.
    The recommended street tyre size for 5.5 inch rims specified by the tyre manufacturers is 180/55 and for 6.0 inch rims it is 190/50.

    The bead diameter of both 17 inch tyres is the same. The important difference is that the
    180/55 has a 55 aspect ratio, which means that its height is 55% of the width cross-section. The 190/50 is 50% of its width. This means that the 55 aspect ratio tyre has a steeper profile, it's taller giving a larger wheel diameter. If you do the Calculations there is only 4mm difference in height between the two tyres when mounted to the recommended 17 inch rims, width size.

    When you mount a 190/50 tyre onto a 5.5 inch rim it's profile becomes slightly incorrect. The narrow rim forces the tyre's outer edges inward into a tighter curve and the center section to slightly raise that results in a slightly smaller contact patch when vertical and a more triangular shape so that you can't use the very edge of the tyre effectively because you would be at an extreme lean angle.
    The main influence on contact patch size is the tyres pressure. Too high pressure and the tyre will hold its profile under braking and cornering loads. Therefore, the contact patch remains fairly constant if the tyre radius profile is constant from the center of the tyre to the edge.
    If you reduce the pressure significantly, the tyre will have a larger contact patch as it can deform much more under brakign and exceleration.
    For example, I run Michelin power one B tyres and I reduce the rear pressure to 22 psi for the rear and to 32 psi on the front for track use only.
    The grip from the tyres at this pressure is way better than at the road pressure of 38 front, and 42 psi on the rear. I have tried these pressures on a track and the rear tyre just spins up out of corners as if I was riding a wet track.
    The 190/50 has more contact patch in the center of the tyre and as you get out to the edge they are all more or less equal.
    If you mounted these same tyres to a 5.5 inch rim. The 190/50 and 190/55 would be higher in the center. The 180/55 would be lower in the center.

    A correct tyre profile with the correct tyre pressure for the type of riding creates a correctly shaped contact patch and better handling. The blow graph show you the three tyres mounted to a 6 inch rim.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. cdrw

    cdrw Ol'Timer

    off-topic....

    "Angels are for fast Touring and Heavy Sports Bikes not the F650GS"
    One of the best things about the GTR board and it's members, other than the camaraderie,
    is that a relative rookie rider can get straight answers and excellent advice from others to help him learn.
    Thanks..
     
  18. Franz

    Franz Ol'Timer

    Hi Brian, many thanks for taking the time and effort to give us the full picture of the tyre dimensions and the effects of what they have.
    On the FJR I have a 17 MT5.50 rim and originally a 180/55 ZR17 was mounted. Now I use a 190/55 ZR17.
    I didn't notice the wider diameter as my old 180 was worn down to the thread and anyway with a new backtyre you always miss some acceleration, but the feeling in turns when pushing it a little was improved to the old 180.
    Your hint about less than the recommended tyrepressure is a good one I'm gonna try once on a quickie again.
    Cheers, Franz
     
  19. brian66

    brian66 Ol'Timer

    Hi Franz
    I don’t want to be responsible for someone having an evil handling bike due to my comments on tyre pressure.
    I would never recommend that any one change their tyre pressures from the manufactures specifications. Unless we were at a track where riders experiment and tyre pressures are changed constantly to suit the weather and track temperature.

    Each tyre manufacturer will have a recommended tyre range and tyre pressure relative to the tyre and the type of bike the tyre will be fitted to.
    The 22 psi rear tyre pressure I mentioned is set with the tyre completely cold. Once I do about 8 laps the temperature is already up to about 28 to 30 psi. (I have an on dash tyre temperature and pressure monitor)
    The track temperature in Malaysia is around 50 degrees C so it heats the tyre quickly.

    Remember I ride on a track which creates heat because the tyre is being punished and pushed hard. You ride on roads and you can’t constantly push the tyre to create heat therefore you don’t get the optimum grip from the rubber being at a good working temperature.

    The below photo is my Michelin power one tyre mounted to a CBR1000RR. The pressure was set at 22 psi and this how the tyre looked after 30 laps of the circuit.
    You would never get this much heat into your tyres riding on roads and neither do i

    If you let your tyres down, too much, I assume you would be running around 42 psi, cold, in the rear tyre. ( let’s say down to 32 psi) on the rear tyre on a big heavy bike like the FJR the bike will feel like it squirming around and has a flat tyre until you get some heat into the tyre. That’s just plain dangerous.

    If you are going to experiment with pressures do it with small increments and try to set the pressures before your ride so the tyre is completely cold.
    Personally, I would stick with your proven current tyre pressures as you are not going to gain much corner speed by getting more contact patch and just increase your risks.
    It appears you wanted and achieved a better handling feeling and you got that with the different profile you have created with the 190/55 combined with the 5.5 inch rim.
    In my experience the handling feeling feedback from tyres and suspension is what gives confidence and makes your riding a thrilling experience. With your new set up, you are probably not going faster through the corners but you feel confident in your bikes “Feel”
    And that is the most important thing.

    Brian
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Not on a Yamaha

    Not on a Yamaha Ol'Timer

    You should really double check with the manufacturer for correct pressures. Also it need to be asked whether the recommendations is either HOT or COLD temps. For instance pirelli recommend 30psi HOT for the track tyres.

    My ex track bike was 27 front 24 rear.
     
  21. KZ

    KZ Ol'Timer

    Tire pressure is quite an important factor - when I rode my bike with manufacturer recommended high pressure it rode nicely on the highway, like a train on a track, but around town and on on worse roads it felt "bouncy" and uncomfortable. After some time the pressure would sink and the in town riding improved, as well as cornering. Weeks later the steering started to feel a bit mushy, then the pressure got too low.
    It felt best about 10-20% below manufacturer's high pressure figures (those seem to be for two-up or maximum load) around town; I usually added air before going on a longer trip.
     
  22. Franz

    Franz Ol'Timer

    Hi Brian, was not intended to suggest any harm or taking you 100% and play around, my backtyre looked the same when with Gerhard and Tony doing the Doi Pukkha loop in Nan. :smile1: . Like Klaus I'm gonna play around a little on the big one as the 39/42 psi-cold somtimes seem to get too hard when pushing it, you'll know yourself when in a turn with some small ruts and the bike starts slipping a little on the back, nothing serious but that can be improved I'm sure. Played already with front suspension but the back one doesn't give me much just hard and soft..... :? . When going on the diretissima to the Eastern Seaboard, the harder the better as mainly long straight stretches and fully loaded. But coming back to the original topic, next time I'm gonna fit the Angels for a test. Thanks once more for your perfect explanations :thumbup: and don't be afraid, I won't deflate to 20 psi and then ride her..... :mrgreen: .....ahh and before I forget, I'm always checking my tyre pressures once a week just to be on the safe side, cheers, Franz
     

Share This Page