A Lesson learnt

by **dirthonk** » 31.07.2010, 13:32

It seems obvious to me that there are obviously some very different types of " biker" posting on this forum. Those who potter along with the general aim of getting from A to B enjoying the scenery and smells along the way, and those with a genuine thirst for adrenaline and speed and a desire to challenge ourselves and our motorcycles. I think we can co-exist, its quite simple, those who are offended and get their knickers in a twist about a few powerslides, wheelies, over indulgent lean through corners should not think about or come along on a SSR ride.
Just as some of us dont expect( or want) to get invited on the rides that the other demographic partake in.
There are no hard feelings about this either way i trust, thats just the way it is, different strokes for different folks.
This however does not mean that we cannot tolerate each other and still meet up in the evenings for beers together. It is sad that there has been some petty slights and criticism on the internet, we can all, as adults, choose how we want to live and behave without being judged by others.

Happy riding now folks, and stay safe! :happy2:

by **Franz** » 31.07.2010, 14:07

Agree totally with Luke, can't putt-putt-putt along too often, like the adrenaline kick in some times and that depends on my general constitution both physically and mentally. Sometimes I'm doing a mix of both get a daring leanangle plus slide and somtimes putt-putt-putt. I must say enjoy both but lean more towards the Luke/SSR way :mrgreen:

but now with confidence in saying no more increase in throttle sometimes.... :smile1:

. Keep on riding & enjoying & stay safe !! Cheers, Franz

by **Ian Bungy** » 31.07.2010, 14:30

Well Said Franz and some of You other Guys! As Franz said in His opening Post:
"Know your own limits and respect them" is the basic rule while biking.
I doubt that Doing Wheel Stands and Power Slides in the Hills presents as much Danger to the Public as the Local Village Idiot in a Pickup :crazy:

Or the Local Red, Yellow, Orange, Blue etc Cab Drivers along with the Tuk Tuks etc etc. Quite Possibly the Worst most Selfish inconsiderate Drivers in Thailand :thumbdown:

Now if I had the Skill and Ability to Do Wheel-stands, Slides and any other Stunts I could think of I would no Doubt be doing them at every available Opportunity :thumbup:

Bloody Good Fun and one of the things that Make Riding here in LOS so much more Enjoyable than at Home in Our Own Over Policed and Over Restricted Countries :clap:

I would guess that anyone Who can't do any of the above could Harbour some form of Jealousy, I know I do :wink:

At the End of the Day We all end up in the Same Place so Be Mature enough to Ride at Your own Speed not be Suckered into a Make Believe Race? At No Time on any Ride have I ever been Questioned on why I was Slower or Faster than anyone Else and I Rode at what I was Happy with! I am Sure that most all the SSR & GTR Guys couldn't cared less Who was first or Last to in the Group? Have Fun Guys. Good on the SSR Guys and Sorry I couldn't have Joined You, Maybe next time.

by **Kiwi Cruiser** » 31.07.2010, 15:23

Oops - apologies if I've struck a raw nerve (or two) there...

- my comments were made in the spirit of the original Topic Post by Franz... quote;

Need to post these thoughts of mine on the forum, of course all are my own experiences // opinions and might not match yours, so any critisism given and returned is nothing serious but just one's own opinion but will give us some possibilities to rethink our own view of things for maybe // hopefully our own good.

Franz's post expressed a variety of opinion's on riding, safety etc, as a result of a sobering experience... He called for comments and opinions. I agree totally with everything he says about "rethinking / age" and I also agree with his closing comment;

Better to take it a little slower but safe and still I enjoy the ride !

Its kind of important to remember that the sheer volume of incompetently operated vehicular traffic in LOS means that in many cases, "The mistake that kills you probably won't be Yours! Of course, when you're dead, it won't matter a fat rat's bottom how awfully good you were at stunt riding, or that the right of way was most certainly yours, as this video shows! :wtf:

If any of this irritates or offends the adrenalin junkies, hey - don't be thin-skinned... You are just as entitled to express your own particular opinion and riding style as the more cautious are to ride and think their own way... We are a disparate group of people, united by a passion for riding motorcycles in one of the planet's best venues. Riding extra-fast is great fun, but there is a time and a place for everything. Many people think "stunts" ought not be performed on public roads... Those with opposing views are of course free to disagree - but its going to be a much harder position to defend... :lol:

The important point here is that on any public road, innocent people are ALWAYS coming the other way... maybe not right at the precise moment someone is showing off, but thats only a matter of timing. Stunt riding is best performed where the rider is the only one at risk. Thailand is a VERY free country indeed compared to wherever "Home" is but even so, there are limits to what constitutes commonsense riding behaviour.

As Luke's carefully-reasoned post rightly suggests, there are demographics... The more experienced "locals" know what group their skills and riding style will best fit in with. Birds of a feather flock together, as my grandmother was fond of pointing out. Regardless of what (or how) we ride as individuals, we should always be able to mix together, enjoy having a beer and a yarn or two. There's always been an implicit understanding that there will sometimes be differences of opinion on what's hot and whats not... Freely sharing opinions within a diverse group helps enlighten others (and outsiders) on what is normal, acceptable, tolerated or perhaps even frowned on etc. As far as I can see, there has always been a mutual respect for and tolerance of other peoples peculiarities, pecadillos and persuasions... :thumbup:

As Tony and others say, there's certainly the freedom to select your companions, and pick and choose the rides you participate in. As a responsible adult, any recklessness is always entirely optional - everyone has the personal responsibility to decide on his/her own actions in response to those of others...

As Mark correctly states, the original post was not specifically about dangerous driving... but perhaps the majority of mature and responsible riders around the world would regard the performing of wheelies and slides on public roads in that light? A brief look around on YouTube for "motorcycle stunt accidents" demonstrates the potential consequences... Click the Youtube icon at bottom right of each video and look below the "Highest Rated Comments" - you'll see that the consensus of opinions expressed by other riders and the general public are not exactly positive and encouraging of the activity... :-)

Ian suggests that some people, himself included, might be envious of other people's ability to pull wheelies etc. :-)

In my case, I uster-could, back in my 20's when I had that awesome, beastly geared-down ankle-breaker of a Honda XR500. In my 30's, my Suzuki GS1000 could certainly lift and hold a front wheel up - but scared the daylights out of me on the ocassions that it did so! Fortunately, I outgrew any inclination to perfect the wheelie art, before I ripped the bum out of my favourite "bell-bottom" Wranglers... :-)

"rethink our own view of things for maybe // hopefully our own good?"

Who knows??? I like the GT-Riders I've met... and its depressing to see the name of anyone I've met, or whose posts I've read, appearing in a report like those above... Therefore, if my opinions or comments make even one person pause for sober reflection, its worth taking the time to contribute to the original post by Franz...

Not convinced yet?

by **hs0zfe** » 31.07.2010, 21:55

Well, is this a way to be fishing for compliments? I bet few would keep up with Franz if they were wearing Japanese style "aging suits" to make up for years plus then bringing their weight to 105 kg. :wink:

Many a GSX-R / ZZR / Fireblade rider might mature and beging a love affair with say a 1098 Ducati with its glorious mid-range power and incredible sound. The bike which impressed me most was - a Moto Guzzi. A living, snorting, gurgling, shaking, rumbling and wheezing living beast as engine! Even at 10 mph, it was a very emotional experience! It broke down constantly and was not even a big one, it was their smallest V-twin made in the 1980s.

Take shoes - some shoes feel right. Comfort matters. to me, riding is mostly a solitary activity. Like KZ, I want to do as I please and stop whenever I want.

Some stick to older bikes, not because they cannot afford the latest KTM or whatever high performance bike.

There is one thing I'm convinced of as universal truth: one can have loads of fun on smaller, slower bikes, too! At least, I cannot revive the joy, the passion and the way I responded to the experiences riding a bike brings to all senses I had when I was riding the smallest BMW twins, R 45s.

Imperfection might be part of the emotional package? Turbine like fours aren't my cup of tea. But hey - we are all on a journey. We are all seekers. We are all fancying many bikes simultaneously and death might be just around the next corner.

Let's be here now and not worry about our pot bellies, bald crowns, shrunk dicks after XX hours in the saddle and look at the bright side, shall we?

Chris

by **Dougal** » 01.08.2010, 08:24

Its this post and so many other great posts and reports that makes me happy to be a GT Rider.

I love this post; I've read every response; I understand every view and I agree with every viewpoint.
I'm not one of the quicker riders and I'm happy and comfortable with my riding style.
But...................I do get a real 'kick' out of watching the boys like the SSR going through their paces. I've ridden with them and Franz and I love it.
If they start 'going for it' its great fun to watch from behind them without any feeling or need to emulate them.
I've always had great fun with them, and Franz, and have always found them to be aware and considerate to the slower riders.

One safety point that I've learned on group rides, and David FL covered everything else, is to avoid getting lazy by just following the bike in front without thinking for yourself. Sorry if I can not explain this better; for instance: Do not let your vision get fixated on the bike in front and following/copying all it does. Best example is when approaching a bend you have to kind of put that bike (in front) in your peripheral vision, judge the bend by yourself and pick your own line through 'entry', 'apex' and 'exit'.
Just following/copying without thinking for yourself you may find yourself already leant over on a line you may not take normally. Not nice.

Keep it up guys. I think its great that we have different bikes, different riding speeds and styles, and that we can still ride together and have incredible fun.

by **Franz** » 01.08.2010, 09:17

Chris, no one fishing here for compliments, we all could have done so at our little 'party' after the ride...... :mrgreen:

, have been with the quick SSR boys several times and always enjoyed it very much !!
It's much more that I was looking for soulmates who also realise that with coming age you need to come to the conclusion that your bodily functions get a little slower, less endurable and the reaction also misses by some seconds. At the beginning this is frustrating but while realising yourself that you are not able like younger riders anymore you then enjoy the same way you did 20 years before.
There's also some looking for the "perfect riding partner" which means speeds and daring are a little similar....... :thumbup:

, before his leaving Peter Dougal was a near perfect match, also his loving for some ciggie/coffee stops.........555555
I really love the quick pace the SSR guys are on their trips, but as Dougal stated, go your own pace and don't follow the one up front as your reaction isn't that good anymore while younger riders still can react in time to any mistake happening.......
All this is hard for a moment to come to a conclusion that you are getting older and less able, you notice while doing a break that you get more and more exhausted and need more time to recover. It's the same like having too much booze, you start getting afraid just of the 'day after' as it takes more time for your body to get rid of the remaining alcohol and you physically and mentally suffer more, so you realise and give it an earlier stop...... :mrgreen:

.
Keep the comments coming...... :angel:

.......Franz

by **TonyBKK** » 01.08.2010, 09:59

Personally I think Franz is being a bit hard on himself- and there's certainly nothing wrong with being critical of oneself, but in his defense I'd like to point out that he was riding sick and medicated which is probably the cause of the leg cramps and not feeling 100%. He left CM at 0530 to rendezvous with us in Mae Sariang so probably didn't get much sleep and already had a lot of KM under his belt by the time he joined us. And he was on his DR650 with a 19" front wheel - not easy to go fast on such a setup! I'd have also been very frustrated if I'd been on that bike trying to keep up with Mark and Luke and John. It's good to be honest with oneself but don't be too hard on yourself Franz! You're still crazy fast and smooth (for an old git!) :lol-sign:

I hope when I grow up I can ride half as well as you do! :happy5:

Happy Trails!
Tony

by **Kiwi Cruiser** » 01.08.2010, 10:34

Hey Franz

You are rightly a "Revered Old Git" in the eyes of the motorcycling fraternity. You have a reputation as a fast, safe and smooth rider, are a wonderful host, and a generous and caring all-round "good guy." You've added 990+ posts on this forum since June 2007... Many posts - like this one - are thought-provoking and stimulate useful debate. The resulting discussions and exchange of views make a valuable contribution to the knowledge and experience available to new riders! You are always supportive of other riders points of view, always encourage other riders, and your kind words on other's posts provide the encouragement for guys and gals to continue writing trip reports, asking questions and offering knowledge. Hell, you're a legend already!!!

We'd like you to be around and keeping up the good work for a long time to come! If that means slowing down a bit when you're feeling the need, thats a mature and sensible way of dealing with the feelings and thoughts you've expressed so eloquently in that first post.

A little bit of self-analysis and reflection is never a bad thing, but as others have said - don't be too hard on yourself. Everyone I know respects and admires you, and to all of us you are a valued friend and a leading contributor! You set a fine example to others, and its greatly appreciated by all who know you...
:happy1:

by **Franz** » 01.08.2010, 10:47

Ben & Tony, thanks and enough of the good words..... :smile1:

, didn't want this to be a hand clapping session, just the opposite this post becoming a discussion as it already did......I do what I do and I love it......never regretted anything in my life.......and will keep going like always before maybe a litten bit lower.......Mark made me an offer I can't resist, just trying one of his DRZ400's 17"/120 rims instead of my 21"/90 on the DR, just await parts from Chan and then it's rebuild time again. Oh by the way, would like to have been on a trip yesterday with Mark, Luke and Nick but my innards are not healed yet, so hopefully next weekend......
Everyone loves a little sunshine, but please stop it as unintentionally I got it and it puts me now into this situation: :oops:

...........
Think I fire up the noisemaker/dog&Wavescarer and do a little Samoeng in the afternoon and the join some of you at Ian's X-Center for some F1........cheers, Franz

by **feejer** » 02.08.2010, 08:40

Davidfl wrote:I’ve pulled a Jap rider out from going over the edge on R1234, the Kiu Sataa – Doi Mae Salong road. He suffered a broken back. Within 24 hrs we had him in Ram hospital in Chiang Mai & operated on. 6 weeks later he was walking & back in Japan. He was the best rider in the group, but the last one at the time & we think was trying to catch up, not knowing we had stopped up the road to wait. He misjudged a corner & over the edge he went. I had to get the police, an ambulance, 2 nurse + 6 Akha guys with machetes to find him; then follow up at hospitals in Mae Chan – Chiang Rai – Chiang Mai, all in 24 hrs.
Standing at the spot where the rider went over the edge, you would never know that a rider & motorbike had crashed through there - no marks whatsoever! So stay in sight of one another.
Check out these photos...

Ughhh! That is one of my nightmare scenarios when riding solo and in some isolated territory. Being badly injured and laying down there for days suffering is a pretty horrifying thought. One reason to always try to tell someone your planned route. Also have your cell phone fully charged and ON. At least over here in US, they can ping the phone to get a relative fix on your position if you turn up missing and you're too badly hurt to call or answer calls.

by **TonyBKK** » 02.08.2010, 08:50

feejer wrote:Ughhh! That is one of my nightmare scenarios when riding solo and in some isolated territory. Being badly injured and laying down there for days suffering is a pretty horrifying thought. One reason to always try to tell someone your planned route. Also have your cell phone fully charged and ON. At least over here in US, they can ping the phone to get a relative fix on your position if you turn up missing and you're too badly hurt to call or answer calls.

Yes, but don't forget that some of the best bike roads in Thailand have no cell phone reception. I did most of my touring in the US solo, but in the US and the rest of the "West" you can generally count on decent emergency medical response / care in the event of an accident. But here in Thailand I find it prudent to ride with friends who can help each other out and watch you back in case things go sideways...

I'm curious- when David had his terrible accident with the bus that sliced his leg open- how long did it take for medical care to arrive? He's quite lucky he didn't bleed to death on the spot!

Keep her shiny side up!

T

by **Mark Rossi** » 02.08.2010, 10:54

I find some of the points on here in conflict to my own thoughts, David's post about safety points riding in a group mentioned 2 points i strongly disagree with, especialy for a group that doesnt know each others habits.
One of these points:
Moral of the story: in a group ride extra safely, especially when you don't know everyone & have not all ridden together before. You never know what is around the next corner & you could literally have a mess to sort out.
You can’t ride faster than the slowest rider.
and the other point was:
6. Keep your position in the group.
No offense meant David but I personaly disagree
Even riding the straights at the same speed 2 opposing ability's will have different braking points and lines this often causes collisions, especially as the more skilled rider may laspe concentration from boredom. And the slower riders will feel pressured to go fast enough so the faster dont become annoyed.
If your group has a speed difference I suggest regrouping more regularly is a better alternative . I find on tarmac even with riders with quiet a big difference in their speeds, there is only a very short wait over a 30min stint of riding.
The other point i disagree with is this one, Deliberately NOT inviting known lunatics on rides is my personal policy... Ben Kemp
and as Ben mentioned it is personal policy and my policy is different and it is probably because i grew up in a racing faternity. Our motorcycle community tried to develope riders and teach them a safer more skilled way to ride. There are always going to be ego's, and there are always going to be the guys trying to make a name or impress, That doesnt make them lost causes, In my opinion and it is better to take these riders under your wing and help them, making motorcycling safer for all of us, we also have always had a uphill battle with public perception of motorcyclist and some times for good reason, instead of putting our heads in the sand, make a attempt to use your motorcycling maturity and you may find that so called lunatic only needed some guidance.
On my trip back to Australia in April i got to experience the fruits of our labour when i rode with 5 riders who we started training twice a week with, when they where 14 years old, To see them now at 22 years old and how they have matured is amazing and inspiring, and now they are giving back as we did to the younger up and comers. This was brought on by a motorcycling community effort to improving riding skill and safety.
As this thread has altered to a motorcycling safety advice I have given my 2 cents, and encourage a positive debate that may save lives,
these are my personal thoughts and open for scrutiny, i wont take offense.

I

by **Kiwi Cruiser** » 02.08.2010, 12:20

Good points, Mark...

Regarding my expressed personal preference to NOT ride with known lunatics; that was actually not aimed at exponents of wheelies & slides, or very high speeds etc. I've ridden with you (once) without any issue at all, never with Luke, Tony etc. That particular point should perhaps have been more specific because at the time I was actually thinking of;
- the known wierdos and whackos
- those who usually have beers for breakfast
- and especially those who smoke "happy baccy" at rest stops... :-)

There are very few guys in this category, they are probably not going to appreciate or respond to any well-meaning advice, and they represent a severe risk to anyone and everyone riding with them. On the other hand, youthfull enthusiasm or "new to the region" is most defintely not the same thing and will, as you've pointed out, usually respond well to a bit of coaching and mentoring...

As for group rides, there's obviously VERY different dynamics and requirements depending on whether its;
- a managed tour group
- an organised club group, or sponsored ride e.g. Yamaha etc
- a non-organised group of people who don't really know each other
- an 'informal ride' with friends of known ability

Actually, I've just asked David if;

Given the comments “A Lesson Learned” on safety, riding safely etc, I was wondering if we should add a new forum within General, devoted solely to that topic? We could move THAT post, plus older “buried” posts e,.g.;
riding-tips-by-gt-rider-t5741.html
http://www.gt-rider.com/touring-informa ... fety-tips2
safety-riding-tips-t4660.html#p26341
up into that, and invite individual riders to share their personal views on;
- how they personally set out to ride safely
- general techniques for cornering
- advice on different roads surfaces
- seasonal variations that impact safety
- specific advice for “newbies” - either new to the region/Thailand, and/or to motorcycling
- tyre choices for tropical riding in different seasons
- advice on potential local traffic problems; other vehicles / drivers
- TonyBKK/Franz et al might like to comment on how to stay safe at higher speeds
- bike choices for local conditions, and why they are safer / better etc
- advice on safety equipment – horns, lights, helmets, jackets & pants etc
- safely gear and where to buy it / recommended suppliers etc
- links to external sites with safety info

Overall, I think its great to give topics like this an airing. We all have different backgrounds, experiences in different countries, different riding styles and different bikes. Some have extensive local experience, gained and added to on a daily basis. By sharing thoughts and views, there's a chance for all of us to gain something from the exchanges.

In my case, all I know about motorcycling is based on personal experience, learned the hard way! I've never ridden on a race track, never had any "formal" motorcycle skills training... I've taken Defensive Driving courses in NZ, as part of driving fire appliances etc, the skills learned there sure have been useful here! I'd like to know what specific skills and techniques other people think work best here...

Any other comments on the value of this? :?:

by **brian66** » 02.08.2010, 12:23

I agree with Marks Rossi's views on riding in groups but it depends on the “Group”
If you have 20 odd Harley Davison mounted riders then this rule may make sense. As they are basically riding for the pose value and not to use their bikes for more than transport from A to B.
I am talking of riding in open country areas. Not the fringe of the city or on heavily trafficked main high ways.
Applying that rule to a small group, say 4 to 8 bikes which are all sports bikes, riding as fast as the slowest rider can and more times than not, will have the opposite safety affect.
If I were with a group that was not varying their pace to suit the roads, I am sure I would be so bored that I would take off alone to have my fun and then stop alongside the road to let them catch up. Then do it over again.
I would probably lose interest in riding with a group like this and ultimately I would look to ride with a group that rides and thinks like I do so likeminded riders eventually ride together which makes the whole riding experience safer.
I believe as a group it is far safer to vary your speed considerably as long as you ride off set and have a decent gap between bikes and also for the fastest rider to lead. This will eliminate any chance that fasters riders will not run up the back of a slower riders should they misjudge their braking points or lines.
In my experience, sports bike riders usually do not maintain a constant pace.
The speed is varied if a tempting section of road is encountered. If we use the ride to the slowest rider theory and the slowest rider is doodling along it may provoke the riders behind to become bored. Especially if that slow rider is slow through corners. The worst place to pass on a two way road!
And that could mean the whole group pulling out and passing the slowest guy so they can enjoy the corner. That pass could be ok for the first bike but being the last bike in the group the view ahead could be restricted. It’s an unnecessary risk.
My experience has also shown that there usually is no constant leader when you have fast and experienced riders together. One person will suddenly accelerate off and one or two may give chase. Maybe even all may up the pace.
However, usually there will be a couple of riders who will be of equal ability and be so close that they may take part in their own little race. But the remainder will be strung out and there will be a decent gap between them. Sometime hundreds or meters, so relative safety is maintained.
This burst or speed will end at some point and the leading guys drop back to a much slower speed to allow the others to catch up. This Yo Yo affect is what I have experienced in many, many rides.
I always wonder what a lunatic rider is. How do you define a lunatic?
I would categorise that as a person that does obscene speeds through heavy traffic along the center line or on the wrong side or the road. That is just plain stupid. His time is limited and riding this way I am sure he would spend most of his time alone or waiting for people to catch up. Because a sensible person in not going to copy him.
I would be ok with this type of rider as long as he is a long way in front of me and not just behind me.
Others would say it is a person who rides around in jeans and no shirt. Just look at You Tube and you can see all sorts on lunatics like this. Look at the motor cycle X games riders. They could be regarded as lunatics. Other would say it’s a person who does wheelies or stoppies.
Other than the person speeding through traffic, I personally don’t class any of them as lunatics and I would ride with every one of them. I just wouldn’t take the risks they take if they are faster than me.

by **TonyBKK** » 02.08.2010, 12:48

brian66 wrote:My experience has also shown that there usually is no constant leader when you have fast and experienced riders together. One person will suddenly accelerate off and one or two may give chase. Maybe even all may up the pace.
However, usually there will be a couple of riders who will be of equal ability and be so close that they may take part in their own little race. But the remainder will be strung out and there will be a decent gap between them. Sometime hundreds or meters, so relative safety is maintained.
This burst or speed will end at some point and the leading guys drop back to a much slower speed to allow the others to catch up. This Yo Yo affect is what I have experienced in many, many rides.

Wow- are you sure we haven't ridden together? You've described our dynamic on SSR rides perfectly. :happy5:

Ride On!
Tony

ps. I think Ben's idea of starting a thread dedicated to motorcycle safety is a good one! I considered myself a fairly 'experienced' biker when I came to Thailand and have been really amazed at how much I've learned while riding with GT Rider guys here over the past few years. If I've learned anything, it's that you never stop learning! And someone who thinks they know it all.... Well... I'll hold my tongue but you know where that usually ends up :mrgreen:

T

by **johngooding** » 02.08.2010, 13:09

Wow Franz did you know what you were kicking off here. A great collection of individual views on why we ride, how we do it, and how to keep doing it safely.
I agree with the majority of views stated here and thats one of the great things about GT-Rider site..... there are people with different views and we can co-exist and enjoy socialising and sometimes riding together. The Recent Wednesday evening get togethers at Miguels have brought people with different bikes, styles and ideas, all have been enjoying the chance to share ideas, and also a chance to agree future rides together.
I will not repeat the many good principles and ideas already posted, just say thanks to those who contributed, a lot of food for thought.
I will say one or two things I think not said, I ride at different speeds on different bikes with different focus groups and generally enjoy each of those scenarios.
One thing I have repeatedly found out is that it is more difficult to give 100% concentration when riding slower, this can be dangerous. When I am going fast, particularly alone, I am totally focussed on the the road, the bike, the traffic etc, constantly assessing the road a long way ahead. I make fast progress and feel almost invunerable, because I feel on top of everything happening. (May be delusional, but its been OK so far). When riding with a group the pace is normally slower, apart from all the above things to look out for, I have to keep an eye on the guy in front and also an eye on the mirror for the one behind, there are frustrations, because progress will not be as smooth as I am used to alone. I find that sometimes my thoughts wander because I am travelling at a pace that, because I am normally quicker, some part of me feels i do not need all my concentration. Hard to explain, but it happens. So I feel concentration is the key, not speed. Travelling slower is not always safer, especially if you are constantly enmeshed in traffic and have fast cars regularly trying to squeeze past.
I had a great trip this week KK to CM, a few days in CM and back to KK on Brians R1. I will post my thoughts about it separately. Changed my ideas about the R1 as a long distance, and also an about town bike, enjoyed both. My average journey speeds, probably 25kph higher than my other bikes. Actually felt safer, loved the power available, and the great acceleration and flickability, braking etc. Did not corner too much faster than normal, but overtook a lot more cars a lot more easily (and safer!!!) Enjoyed hammering through the gaps, like a roller skater on a fast moving rink.
I am different from Luke in that I do not get enjoyment from wringing every last ounce of performance out of a smaller bike. For me I want to be in the smooth operating range of the bike, with power available instantly if I do call on it. So this week, I travelled a lot quicker on a much faster bike, and enjoyed the adrenaline rush, however I am glad I was alone, I would not have wanted to fight the urge to compete with the quicker boys, just because i had the machine to do it.

A brief one about wheelies, stoppies, burn outs (Trent), on public roads. Well of course you do these things where there are people to watch and applaud and admire. The key point is that you must be in control of your bike at all times, if the rider is in control, it is great fun and lifts the spirits, its good to see. If he is not in control and just showing off, then he should be doing it in a large private car park. Last week a certain gentleman whose initials are MR, left the XCentre pulling a wheelie, for a couple of hundred metres, totally in control, no danger to anyone and causing a lot of smiles. That was fun. Surely thats what we all want, safe motorcycling with the fun factor, and what is fun for some, will be fearful for others, but at least it lets them see what is possible further down the experience road. Long may it all continue.

by **Kiwi Cruiser** » 02.08.2010, 17:35

The new "Safety" forums are now active, awaiting your input... :mrgreen:

This is located in the General forum, see: Riding Safely in S.E. Asia
http://www.gt-rider.com/thailand-motorcycle-forum/riding-safely-in-s-e-asia-f99.html

Under that, there are now 5 sub-forums;
1- Advice for Newbies: advice-for-newbies-f101.html
2 - Group Riding Concepts: group-riding-concepts-f100.html
3 - Local Variables: local-variables-roads-seasons-tyre-choices-f103.html
4 - Roadcraft: roadcraft-f102.html
5 - Safety; equipment, links: safety-equipment-links-f104.html

Those who have already posted their thoughts on Group Riding are welcome to re-post those comments in the Group Riding Concepts forum, and it would help if you specified what type of Group ride you are expressing an opinion on; commercial, club, informal, close friends etc.

Moving Safety-Related Posts:
- Moved this topic to the " Riding Safely in S.E. Asia" forum....

If you have previously written a 'starter' Topic on any of the 5 sub-forum themes above, and think it should be moved to one of those listed (or a new one) let me know the URL and I will do it for you.

by **Mark Rossi** » 03.08.2010, 10:05

Good idea Ben to open a safety topic forum I applaud any positive steps in this area, if we can assist and learn from each other, better and safe ways, I am all for it.
Maybe you could get Khun Dtum involved as he genuinely has a interest in improving local ability to ride safer with his schools at Hang Dong raceway.
I do remember a quote from Travis Pastrana after crashing out of several race, I may stand corrected, but I think it was in 2003 at a Ama motocross National.
it went something like this "Motocross is a game of risk analysis and management, my analysis seems to be a little off at this time"
I think this comment stands true to all motorcycling as it can be a dangerous past time, there are many points including peer pressure of group riding can be a factor for mis-analysing the risk factors.

by **daewoo** » 03.08.2010, 13:27

johngooding wrote:When riding with a group the pace is normally slower

Khun John is referring to me specifically

by **johngooding** » 03.08.2010, 15:16

daewoo wrote:
johngooding wrote:When riding with a group the pace is normally slower

Khun John is referring to me specifically

Not at all Darryl, I thought our small group of riders was well matched, bearing in mind we were mostly wanting to see the scenery as well. I was thinking of much larger and slower group rides. Of course I know you were also taking great care to run in Mr Beer's new Ninja, so keeping the revs down!!!

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