The Golden Triangle Rider

[rectravel]

Things are definitely happening on the Lao border with Vietnam these days.

About this "Sekong / Konetoum" road, it is the road between Attapeu on the Sekong River in southern Laos and Kontum in Vietnam. Some preliminary research about this now open road from November of 2001 is on

http://rectravel.com/rbe/kdba.htm

See the very bottom of the page.

What else is there to see in this area? See the thread on

http://board.gt-rider.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=701

Pictures taken in November of 2001 by a US Veteran of the Vietnamese end of this "new" road are on

http://www.geocities.com/steve_05g/

It is interesting news about the opening of this road, but most likely, foreigners will not be able to cross into or out of Vietnam on this particular road for at least a few more years.

More relevant here is to underline still again that nothing bigger than a 175cc is allowed into Vietnam on a regular every day basis. Ride your big bike into Laos and ride up to the check point on the Lao side of the border on this new road to the east out of Attapeu, but do not assume that you will be able to take your big bike across the border into Vietnam.

At the same time, it would be amuzing to read news about the reception that a guy on a big bike received on the Lao side of the border on this "new" road. Probably, because they are so bored, the Lao guys will invite you to stick around for lunch and whatnot. If you drink too much "lao lao" with them, you will certainly also be spending the night in their hut.

Enjoy your visit. Upload your Lao / Vietnam border news here.

[Davidfl]

Spoke to the staff of the Luang Prabang tourist office in Vientiane yesterday & they say you CANNOT use the Dien Bien Phu crossing.
It is not ready for tourists & they know nothing about any tour groups (Passion Asia / Visit Mekong) using this crossing.
Does this clear the air any better?



Davidfl
Keep The Power On

[rectravel]

Actually, no, the air is not now more clear about the Dien Bien Phu crossing.

A simple e-mail to info@passionasia.com tells another story.

QUOTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for visiting www.Passionasia.com! My name is Cherry and I would be assisting you with information my best.

Regarding 8 DAYS DIEN BIEN PHU – MOUANG KHOUA – OUDOMXAI – LUANG PRABANG – VIENTIANE TOUR, the prices (based on 1 person) are as below:

Valid : 01/11/2004 - 31/10/2005
- USD 2,254 per person for 5 Star Hotel
- USD 1,594 per person for 4 Star Hotel
- USD 1,829 per person for 3 Star Hotel

You can make reservation right now by fillng out our Booking Form on the following page:

http://www.passionasia.com/trip_info.cfm/tripid/1543.htm

Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. I'm looking forward to hearing from you on this.

Right here to serve you all the time,

Cyberly yours,
Cherry
Your Online Agent at ...
www.passionasia.com, where visitors become friends

UNQUOTE

An e-mail inquiry to http://www.visit-mekong.com would probably result in the same response.

Perhaps those Lao tourism officials in Luang Phrabang are out of the loop?

Cheers,

[BobS]

Rectravel

I read your latest response, and checked the links.

1. PassionAsia lists this as a private 8 day minibus trip, available since last October. There is no mention that any trip has occurred and the crossing was available for international use.

2. Visit Mekong has multiple country tours, but connections are by air.

This site and message board are primarily for motorcycle travel in SE Asia. If you have any recent information about border crossings by motorcycle travellers, please post it.

The keywords here are RECENT and MOTORCYCLE!! Lots of trips have been done in the past - but what you can do today is most important.

Unconfirmed travel agent itineraries and bus travel reports are more important to the Lonely Planet crowd.

BobS



"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right."

[rectravel]

[img]http://home.hetnet.nl/~busaba/hanoi_chiangrai/maps/dbp.jpg[/img]

Earlier in this thread, some bicycle riders posted news about their visit to the Vietnamese side of the border at Dien Bien. They were not able to cross, so they rode their bicycles down to Mai Chau and crossed to Sam Neua. What they failed to mention is that they have the best yet online map of this area on their site. See it on

http://home.hetnet.nl/%7Ekcbybike/hanoi_phetchaboon/maps/route_vietnam_with_line.jpg

The blue and red lines are the route that they took. Their description of the roads on the Vietnamese side is on

http://home.hetnet.nl/~busaba/hanoi_chiangrai/stages.html

When this crossing opens to foreign independent travelers, motorcycle riders coming from Thailand and Laos will need to keep in mind the size restriction on motorcycles in Vietnam.

Perhaps it will be none other than davidfl who first manages this crossing on a motorcycle?
-----------------------
The maps above were uploaded by KC who now has a site on

http://www.bicycleadventure.net/

Perhaps the Vietnamese Consulate General in Khon Ken knows something about this Dien Bien crossing?

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/showarticle.php?num=07ECO230405

Tourism sector to survey bordergates, destinations

(23-04-2005)

HA NOI — A team of Government officials and representatives of 12 major travel agencies in Viet Nam is making an eight-day survey of bordergates and tourist destinations along the land routes connecting Viet Nam, Laos and Thailand.

The team, headed by the director of the travel department of the Viet Nam National Administration of Tourism (VNAT) and comprised of officials from the ministries of Public Security, Foreign Affairs, Transport, and the General Department of Customs, held a working session with the Lao National Tourism Agency.

Participants in the meeting looked at the opening of new land routes to northern Laos through the Tay Trang bordergate in the northern mountainous province of Dien Bien, as well as from bordergates in Viet Nam’s Tay Nguyen (Central Highlands) region to southern Laos.

On Wednesday, the team met with the Vietnamese Consulate General in Khon Ken in northeastern Thailand, and the Thai Tourism Administration, to discuss the development of tours throughout Viet Nam, Laos, and Thailand. — VNS

[BobS]

Rectravel

Regarding the Dien Bien Phu border crossing, here is a summary of the postings:

1. According to the Lao Tourist office, this crossing is not open to foreign travellers.

2. According to all reports from those who have tried - this crossing is not open to foreign travellers.

Posting a link to a tour company website that lists an impossible trip through this crossing, and claiming that as "proof" that the crossing is open is totally misleading.

If you really want to be a help, list border crossings that foreigners HAVE used sucessfully - WITH confirmed reports!!

Any incorrect and/or out-of-date information that you post does not help current travellers.

BobS




"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right."

[glie]

Hi Guys,

Good morning. Is it really not allowed to bring in motorcycles bigger than 175 cc into Vietnam?

Cheers
Glie

Frans Betgem

[BobS]

Do a little checking first.

http://www.gt-rider.com/crossingborders.html

BobS

"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right."

[rectravel]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Davidfl</i>
<br />A new international border crossing has been opened between Laos & Vietnam this week.
The crossing is in Laos' Houa Phan province and is out from Xam Nua.
The village names either side are
1. Na Meo, Laos.
2. Nam Xoi, Vietnam.
Probably worth checking out sometime?

Davidfl
Keep the power on
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

What is absolutely amazing about this thread is that no one in Hanoi seems to have bothered to look into the status of even the crossing to and from Sam Neua. A motorcycle ride between Hanoi and Sam Neua should be the easiest thing in the world these days. Maybe the guys in Hanoi will get around to checking it out later this year???

Cheers,

[Darx]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by glie</i>
<br />Hi Guys,

Good morning. Is it really not allowed to bring in motorcycles bigger than 175 cc into Vietnam?

Cheers
Glie

Frans Betgem
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hi, I've read a post in Combodia\Vietnam board in which is explained that crossing and drive in vietnam with big bikes is practically possible. At this time I'm in Laos and I've asked about this question at PVO. They say it is true! The shop next PVO for cheap can provide for all documents, and they have confirmaed is also possible crossing with one of their (rented) bikes. When I'll be back in VTE I'll ask for further informations, details, and limitations at ASIA RENTALS (the shop next Pvo).

this is the post I've read :
http://board.gt-rider.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=624
thanks Ben!

[BobS]

Hi Darx

When you are checking at PVO, please ask if that shop can do the same for Thai registered bikes.

Thanks

BobS

"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right."

[Glenn]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rectravel</i>

What is absolutely amazing about this thread is that no one in Hanoi seems to have bothered to look into the status of even the crossing to and from Sam Neua. A motorcycle ride between Hanoi and Sam Neua should be the easiest thing in the world these days. Maybe the guys in Hanoi will get around to checking it out later this year???

Cheers,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I've been over this crossing twice this year, and you're right -- the ride is pretty easy. Whether the border formalities are easy or not seems to depend on the guards' mood that day, and how well you grease their wheels.

I came back into Viet Nam through Na Meo on Monday after a 10-day trip through northern Laos on Minsks. I also crossed into Laos through Na Meo in January, and have had very different experiences each time.

We had six bikes and seven people on Monday, and breezed through the Laos side in no time. However, the Vietnamese border guards weren't happy and went out of their way to make the process as slow as possible. They also didn't know what they were doing with our "yellow slips" -- Viet Nam's arrival/departure card. The guards insisted that they did not need to reissue new yellow slips on our arrival in VN but that we could could retain the ones we had used to depart Na Meo 10 days earlier.

I wasn't with the group when they crossed into Laos (long story) on the 14th, but the Vietnamese guards made the drivers complete new yellow slips on their departure. When I did this crossing six months earlier, we had to declare our Minsks on the yellow slips as "temporarily imported and re-exported goods" and note down the rego, frame and engine numbers. This time, the guards instructed the group <i> not</i> to declare their bikes on the slips. The guards dutifully collected these more-or-less blank forms when we arrived back in VN on Monday. One of our riders was a Vietnamese national, so this may have confused the guards.

I worry that these "blank" yellow slips may have caused problems for us if we had tried to cross back into VN at a different border gate, such as Nam Can or Cau Treo. The bikes all have Vietnamese plates, but are not in our names.

This said, the very same border guards were incredibly helpful and efficient when I departed VN in January, and had been OK when my group passed through on the 14th. It also helps to have women in the group -- as far as I know, the foreigner who pioneered this crossing last year was a solo female Minsk rider coming back to VN. She did some shots of <i>ruou</i> with them and they let her through without any hassle.

[brat]

Hi Glenn, What do you mean "greased", is that in "be very courteous"? I agree with you on having a women present, my aussie girlfriend get's away with heaps, get's guards etc to stand in photos with her anywhere, bloody embarrasing!

"growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!"

[rectravel]

A current picture of the road between Luang Phrabang and Udomxai is on

http://www.pbase.com/chapo/image/18404434

Kinda spooky, eh?

[BobS]

I first drove from Udomxai to Luang Prabang four years ago. The road then was all in very good condition.

While this single photo may be a section with some deterioration, it is NOT typical of the route.

BobS

"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right."

[Davidfl]

SEKONG (Laos) / QUANG NAM (Vietnam) - new LOCAL border crossing

Vietnam-Laos major border gate opens
www.chinaview.cn 2006-02-21 00:57:00

HANOI, Feb. 21 (Xinhuanet) -- A major border gate between Vietnam's central Quang Nam province and Laos' southern Sekong province was established on Tuesday, facilitating economic cooperation between the two countries, Vietnam News Agency reported.

The border gate is located on the trans-Asia highway, the West-East economic corridor, forming the shortest land route from northeastern Thailand, Cambodia and southern Laos to Vietnam's seawaters.

The border gate's operation is expected to facilitate economic cooperation between Vietnam and Laos as well as among countries inthe region. It also helps to control smuggling through the common border, said the report.

The trade between Vietnam and Laos, which was at 165 million U.S. dollars in 2004, stood at nearly 80 million dollars in the first half of 2005.

Laos exported nearly 48 million dollars worth of goods, mainly wood, tobacco materials, monosodium glutamate and dairy products, to Vietnam in the six-month period. Enditem

Copyright ©2003 Xinhua News Agency. All rights reserved.


WILD SPECULATIVE GUESS: Maybe this one will become international in another 18 months, Or once the road to the border is all asphalt on the Laos side. Anyone know what the road condition is like on the Viet side?



Davidfl
Keep The Power On

[rectravel]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-03/01/content_4243853.htm

Vietnam accelerates upgrading border gate with Laos

www.chinaview.cn 2006-03-01 18:01:23

HANOI, March 1 (Xinhuanet) -- Vietnam is speeding up upgrading the Tay Trang border gate with Laos into an international one, a local official told Xinhua on Wednesday.

The improvement of the national border gate in northern Dien Bien province, which began in late 2005 with an investment of 29 billion Vietnamese dong (VND) (over 1.8 million U.S. dollars), is expected to be completed in mid-2006, the official from the provincial People's Committee said, declining to be named.

Located at a point leading to many important road routes linking Laos, Vietnam, Thailand and China, the gate plays an important role in extending trade and tourism between Vietnam's northern region and northern regions of Laos and Thailand, and the southwestern region of China, the official said, noting that the gate's development will help Dien Bien obtain an annual economic growth of 11-12 percent in coming years.

The trade volume between Vietnam and Laos, which was 165 million dollars in 2004, stood at nearly 80 million dollars in the first half of 2005, according to the Vietnamese Trade Ministry.

Laos exported nearly 48 million dollars worth of goods, mainly wood, tobacco materials, monosodium glutamate and dairy products, to Vietnam in the six-month period. Enditem

[rectravel]

Hey Dave. About your trip report and pictures on

http://board.gt-rider.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1097

Am I reading it right? Less than six months ago, you visited the road between Muang Khua and the border crossing at Dien Bien? Is that picture on your page a picture of your motorcycle parked in front of the Lao side of the Dien Bien border station? If it is true, you have got an Internet and world first here with that picture. Cheers,

[rectravel]

http://vietnamnews.vnanet.vn/showarticle.php?num=05ECO200306

Dien Bien aims to become int’l economic zone

(20-03-2006)

Workers construct a road leading to Tuan Giao District’s Na Say Commune in Dien Bien Province. — VNA/VNS Photo Xuan Truong

HA NOI — Authorities in the northern mountainous Dien Bien Province are striving to accelerate construction of the Tay Trang border gate economic zone with a view to turn it into an international economic zone.

The border gate is located at a favourable position to link the Silk Road running through Asia with countries like Laos, Thailand and south-western China.

Nguyen Duc Trung, head of the Tay Trang Project Management Board, said that construction units have been making extra efforts to finish building a road and car park in the zone by May this year.

Deputy director of the provincial Department of Planning and Investment, Nguyen Sy Cuong, said the Tay Trang border gate is closely linked with the Muong Thanh valley, which is regarded as a provincial centre for politics, culture and economic growth.

According to the plans, the first phase of construction will cost VND29 billion (US$1.8 million) and cover an area of 27,000ha.

Cuong said the planning scheme included a key urban centre and an agricultural production area.

The new urban centre will occupy an area of 10ha including border check-points, bonded warehouses, a car park, duty free shop, exhibition trade fairs and showrooms to display the hand-made products of ethnic minority people in the north-western provinces.

The centre will also boast health care wards, schools, and entertainment and eco-tourism sites.

In the second phase, between 2007-2010, the management board will continue to complete infrastructures and intensify investment in cultural affairs.

Quang Van Binh, Chairman of the provincial People’s Committee, said developing the border economy was one solution to help the province promote economic restructuring.

Binh added that the province aimed at reducing the agriculture and forestry production ratio to 30 per cent by 2010. It also strived to raise the industrial ratio to 34 per cent and the services ratio to 36 per cent, while ensuring its everage economic growth rate at 11-12 per cent annually. — VNS

http://www.nhandan.com.vn/english/business/210306/business_5tin.htm

Dien Bien aims to become international economic zone

Authorities in the northern mountainous Dien Bien province are striving to accelerate construction of the Tay Trang border gate economic zone with a view to turn it into an international economic zone.

The border gate is located at a favourable position to link the Silk Road running through Asia with countries like Laos, Thailand and south-western China.

Nguyen Duc Trung, head of the Tay Trang project management board, said that construction units have been making extra efforts to finish building a road and a car park in the zone by May this year.

Deputy Director of the provincial Department of Planning and Investment, Nguyen Sy Cuong, said the Tay Trang border gate is closely linked with the Muong Thanh valley, which is regarded as a provincial centre for politics, culture and economic growth.

As planned, the first phase of construction will cost VND 29 billion (US $1.8 million) and cover an area of 27,000 ha.

Mr Cuong said the planning scheme included a key urban centre and an agricultural production area.

The new urban centre will occupy an area of 10 ha including border check points, bonded warehouses, a car park, duty free shop, exhibition trade fairs and showrooms to display the hand-made products of ethnic minority people in the north-western provinces.

The centre will also boast health care wards, schools, and entertainment and eco-tourism sites.

In the second phase, between 2007-2010, the management board will continue to complete infrastructures and intensify investment in cultural affairs.

Quang Van Binh, Chairman of the provincial People’s Committee, said developing the border economy was one solution to help the province promote economic restructuring.

Mr Binh added that the province aimed at reducing the agriculture and forestry production ratio to 30% by 2010. It also strives to raise the industrial ratio to 34% and the services ratio to 36%, while ensuring its average economic growth rate at 11-12% annually. (VNA)

[SilverhawkUSA]

Rectravel-

Sorry I must of missed this posting. Davidfl just brought it to my attention;

<blockquote><font>quote:<hr> Hey Dave. About your trip report and pictures on

http://board.gt-rider.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1097

Am I reading it right? Less than six months ago, you visited the road between Muang Khua and the border crossing at Dien Bien? Is that picture on your page a picture of your motorcycle parked in front of the Lao side of the Dien Bien border station? If it is true, you have got an Internet and world first here with that picture. Cheers,<hr></blockquote></font>

Yeah I did it with David and Mai from Chiang Khong, as the story goes . I beat them to the checkpoint so I get the credit right (Of course they were fully loaded and two up, but we won't count that [])?

Actually I am not big on keeping track of "firsts" but it was an interesting experience.


(Dien Bien Pu side of border)

I am still always more impressed by the "locals" doing these trips every day on their overloaded Dreams and Waves than I am by our so called "accomplishments".

Thanks for the Cheers though.

Dave Early

Ever notice that "What the Heck!" is usually the right answer?

[rectravel]

Hey Dave, thanks for the pictures. IMHO, they are the first of the Dien Bien crossing since early 1954. Amazing.

The track between Muang Khua and the Lao border post appears to be part of the Asian Development Bank ("ADB") ASEAN highway development plan. Under this ADB plan, the section of road between Muang Khua and the Lao border post is apparently called Hwy 2E, which is a subsection of the "new" Asian Highway 13 (AH-13). See the ADB page on

http://www.adb.org/GMS/Projects/profile.asp?id=9

1.3 Huay Goan (Nan) - Pak Beang (Lao PDR) -Oudom Xay-Meuang Khoua-Tay Chang (VN Border) Road Improvement Project
b. Meuang Khoua-Tay Chang (VN Border)

Scope. This project proposal is a section of National Road No.2E with the total length of 71 km. It starts from Meuang Khoua ( Phongsali Province ) to Taichang (Lao/Vietnam Boeder). The road was constructed in 1975 with an average carriageway of 5 m gravel rod, the road surface is rough and in poor condition, it is hardly to access during wet season.
This road section is the last section of National Road N.2. Road 2W and 2E are included in ASEAN Highway No.13 (AH-13), which links Thailand to Vietnam. This road is very important for transportation in the North region in Lao PDR.
Estimated Cost 17
Financing Status TBD
Financing Plan
Implementing Agencies Ministry of Communication Transport Post and Construction Department of Road
Implementation Schedule 2006-2010
Issues and Constraints
Priority High
Sectors Transportation and Communication

Themes Sustainable Economic Growth

Countries Lao PDR
Viet Nam
© 2006 Asian Development Bank

My guess is that there is no ADB funding yet for improvements to the road on the Lao side of the border, but I may be reading this page wrong. ADB links about other roads in the area are on

http://www.adb.org/GMS/Projects/devmatrix.asp?fl=1

Note the suggestion in the ADB page above that the road that you saw just recently was originally constructed in 1975. Amazing. What you saw just recently were the improvements to this old French road that were done by the North Vietnamese in 1975.

This old track between Muang Khua and Dien Bien has always been there. In the 1920s and 30s, the French had plans to make this road one of the keys to their control of northwestern Vietnam. Historically, this is why they choose to make their stand at Dien Bien Phu, because this old track was the gateway into the old royal Lao capital at Luang Phrabang.

My guess is that it will be a couple more years until this ancient crossing point opens up generally to foreigners. It is an interesting story to watch, no? Cheers,

[Jonathan]

I will be travelling to Vietnam and Laos in August which I think is the wet season. Does anyone know if it is it possible to enter Laos at Cau Treo and travel on highways 8 and 23 to Muang Phin in order to then cross back to Vietnam at Lao Bao. Are the roads ok at this time of year.

[jimoi]

WOW.
Slow down.
What you read in Xinhua and other media reports is fine but how about some first hand information on Diem Bien Phu? Well, according to the immigration officer in DBP, the border MAY open this year but it's being held up by the Lao side not being ready. He indicates that the staff is in place for Vietnam but our brothers in Laos are moving at Lao pace.

Chill out, it's an easy ride to DBP from the border but from my rides and my other half's reports, the road for the first 170 km after the border is in rotten condition. Passable by bus and motorcycle but slow going.

Jonathan, Cau Treo is open and pretty simple. Please refer to the border posts I made for help. Best to time it for an arrival at the border aboutt 16:30 as the boys are tired and you can whip them a little. The Lao side stays open until about 18:00 as they live at the border house and play games there after work, pretty friendly and a welcome into Lao.

Rec, please ride it, don't report on what you have not ridden. It's great to armchair but strap a bike on ya and get out there and have a beer with BobS.

Jimoi

Ride Safe

[Davidfl]

Any one else been out to the new Dien Bien Phu crossing?
_________________
Davidfl
Keep The Power On