What Has Gasohol Done To My Phantom ?

[Captain_Slash]

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Today after 103000 km I decided to turn off the fuel **** undo the bleed screw and empty the contents of my carburettor into a cut off plastic bottle. After all the horror stories and bullshit bandied around about gasohol I was fully expecting the carb to be full of rust, dissolved rubber, water and goodness knows what else.
What came out was what gets put in, that greenish coloured gasohol 91 with not a speck of rubbish in it, I tipped it back in the tank tightened the bleed screw back up turned the fuel **** on and rode off
Apart from putting a few tankfuls of benzine 91 in before I went home a couple of years ago its always been run on gasohol
So if you have a bike that says gasohol 91 on the tank use it, dont get ripped off by the benzine scam of paying 6.8 Baht per litre extra for nothing.
I have now rode 120000 km using gasohol in the last three years, probably more than anyone else on this forum so I use my own experience with gasohol rather than listen to the old wives tales.
On the Phantom (carburettor) there were no benefits at all using benzine, the mileage was exactly the same, so really there were two disadvantages, 1, benzine is more expensive, 2, the bike doesnt perform so well on it

On my BMW (FI) I rode 94000 km using benzine 91 and the knocking was getting really bad by then, to start with it was only going up hills but by that mileage I could hear it on the flats.
I changed over to gasohol 95 and instantly the knocking ceased, I was expecting it to use more fuel and was really surprised when it appeared to be about the same
I rode another 16000 km using only gasohol 95 with no more knocking and the same fuel economy as with benzine.

So to answer the question What Has Gasohol Done To My Phantom ?

Its saved me money thats what its done

[Fatlad]

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Hi Captain Slash
Yes i have been following your travels most days and i am like you, to many scare mongers get on these forums, never ridden a bike before and come out with these old wifes tales, these tyres no good, that fuel no good, we have five bikes at home Vulcan, ER6, KLX250, KLR110 and Mio all running on oridginal tyres and Gasahol 95 never been a problem. Keep up the good work, if you get to Mukdahan any time call in.

[Captain_Slash]

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Fatlad, I cant see myself being near Mukdahan this holiday but perhaps next years trip will bring me out your way, its always nice to call in and meet up with fellow gt-riders

[bigal]

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great info Colin, I seem to recall chatting to Ian at X centre a while ago and he also was saying he had not had a gasohol problem.
I have always been advised to stay away from it but as things go it may well be the only choice soon so it is good to know that perhaps the bike wont dissolve from under me.
al

[LivinLOS]

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All well and good saying its not problem.. And then talking abotu bikes designed for gasohol.. As little as one tank can royally screw up older bikes.

Both my recent bikes (bandit 400 and CBR900) would become violently unwell after even small amounts of gasohol.. left with it in there the carbs are a mess of gunk and dissolved parts..

Recent bikes designed for it.. OK.. But lets not pretend its a non issue.

Even more annoying is garage attendants who will just put anything in there or claim its not gasohol (yes Shell I am looking at you.. V-Power 95 now IS gasohol yet I have had attendants multiple times tell me its not. They filled my brother up with it once on my blade but we got it drained within 15 mins.

[TonyBKK]

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All well and good saying its not problem.. And then talking abotu bikes designed for gasohol.. As little as one tank can royally screw up older bikes.

Both my recent bikes (bandit 400 and CBR900) would become violently unwell after even small amounts of gasohol.. left with it in there the carbs are a mess of gunk and dissolved parts..

Recent bikes designed for it.. OK.. But lets not pretend its a non issue.

Even more annoying is garage attendants who will just put anything in there or claim its not gasohol (yes Shell I am looking at you.. V-Power 95 now IS gasohol yet I have had attendants multiple times tell me its not. They filled my brother up with it once on my blade but we got it drained within 15 mins.

How old was your Bandit and how old is your Blade? Pretty much all vehicles built after 1990 SHOULD be able to handle 10% ethanol gasohol without any problems.

[Tom Forde]

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Hi Col,
I agree with you to up to a point, as Tonybkk says, older bikes are a no no.
I presently own a 1981 CB750 Honda, an old TREX.
runs ok on 91 but hates the gasahol.
My old Dakar 650 runs well on Gasahol a no no on 91. (remember 98? about 6 years ago? yummy)
The other bike is a 1996 TTR Yammy runs on anything including Thai Whiskey.
I guess you just need to do some homework.
See you around.
Cheers
Tom

[Ian Bungy]

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A Phantom may as well Run on Diesel anyway!!! All depends on How You ride and How CHEAP You are!!! As for V-Power 95, Shell Sell Both at some Service Stations, They are Clearly Labeled Gasohol or Gasoline? My Triumph doesn't like 91 and I had it Pinging down in Pattaya once. Put 95 in it and it was fine! It Runs better and gets Better Mileage with Gasoline but Runs fine on any 95 Gasohol! My Yamaha RAID prefers Gasoline and again has a noticeable difference on Gasohol! My KLX seems to run no problem on Either but I am sure it goes better on Gasoline but not as Noticeable as the RAID. All My Bikes are being Ridden around fairly Hard at a decent Speed, I am not Putting around smelling flowers and waving to the Locals! This maybe the Difference? The Optimum Word here Being Power!!! For People Who have it more than Likely they will need 95 to provide it's Full Potential? For those who don't know what Power is and Don't have it just stick to the Cheapest Fuel You can Find!!! Pretty Simple and Easy Deduction and Explanation!

[LivinLOS]

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How old was your Bandit and how old is your Blade? Pretty much all vehicles built after 1990 SHOULD be able to handle 10% ethanol gasohol without any problems.

93 / 94 Bandit and 95 blade..

The bandit had gasohol in it and it then had this treacle like gunk in the carbs, just nasty.. Plus those carbs never ran right after that and ended up being changed.

The Blade has only had one tankful and it ran horribly, only just running but the tank was drained flushed and new fuel through it in minutes as I wanted no repeat of the Bandit.

[jethro69]

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I run a Phantom myself, and fill it up with Gasohol as often I pass a station who has it. There are only very few around here. For the rest I use the regular 91, add for 100 bath in hope to reach a Gasohol station soon. So far I did not notice any difference.
One question about 95, is 95 (gasohol) leaded or unleaded fuel? I refrained from using it, as I'm not sure about this.
For the engine it doesn't matter (guess), but for the catalytic converter I'm afraid of using it.
Another thought was about using E-20, once in a month or two. There was a very good thread about fuels in Thailand,(which I don't find anymore), stating that some brands use additives to protect the engine. I thought on a longer ride to use E-20, until the tank is empty, and then use the regular stuff again. Or is E-20 an methanol blend?? Your opinions are welcome.

[Captain_Slash]

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I run a Phantom myself, and fill it up with Gasohol as often I pass a station who has it. There are only very few around here. For the rest I use the regular 91, add for 100 bath in hope to reach a Gasohol station soon. So far I did not notice any difference.
One question about 95, is 95 (gasohol) leaded or unleaded fuel? I refrained from using it, as I'm not sure about this.
For the engine it doesn't matter (guess), but for the catalytic converter I'm afraid of using it.
Another thought was about using E-20, once in a month or two. There was a very good thread about fuels in Thailand,(which I don't find anymore), stating that some brands use additives to protect the engine. I thought on a longer ride to use E-20, until the tank is empty, and then use the regular stuff again. Or is E-20 an methanol blend?? Your opinions are welcome.

How old is your Phantom to start with?, if it has the 91 E 10 sticker on the tank then you can use gasohol okay, either 91 or 95, they are both unleaded just different octane ratings but 91 is perfectly adequate for the Phantom.
I personally never use E 20 as nowhere either on the bike or in the handbook does it say its suitable for the Phantom, E 20 is 20% ethanol whereas E 10 91 gasohol or 95 gasohol is only 10% ethanol

[Captain_Slash]

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A Phantom may as well Run on Diesel anyway!!! All depends on How You ride and How CHEAP You are!!! As for V-Power 95, Shell Sell Both at some Service Stations, They are Clearly Labeled Gasohol or Gasoline? My Triumph doesn't like 91 and I had it Pinging down in Pattaya once. Put 95 in it and it was fine! It Runs better and gets Better Mileage with Gasoline but Runs fine on any 95 Gasohol! My Yamaha RAID prefers Gasoline and again has a noticeable difference on Gasohol! My KLX seems to run no problem on Either but I am sure it goes better on Gasoline but not as Noticeable as the RAID. All My Bikes are being Ridden around fairly Hard at a decent Speed, I am not Putting around smelling flowers and waving to the Locals! This maybe the Difference? The Optimum Word here Being Power!!! For People Who have it more than Likely they will need 95 to provide it's Full Potential? For those who don't know what Power is and Don't have it just stick to the Cheapest Fuel You can Find!!! Pretty Simple and Easy Deduction and Explanation!

I see you are mellowing in your old age Bungy, and getting diplomatic too
Seriously though I know what power is and used to enjoy thrashing the **** off my Honda Varadero (1000cc not the 125 cc one) in the Uk, 225 kph top speed which was achieved quite a few times, but riding like that in Thailand, no way.
I have ridden 270,000+ km in Thailand over the last eight years without having an accident or coming off once and that is the sort of record that interests me, not setting any speed records

[2wheels]

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Continue to 'smell the roses' Captain.

[jethro69]

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How old is your Phantom to start with?, if it has the 91 E 10 sticker on the tank then you can use gasohol okay, either 91 or 95, they are both unleaded just different octane ratings but 91 is perfectly adequate for the Phantom.
I personally never use E 20 as nowhere either on the bike or in the handbook does it say its suitable for the Phantom, E 20 is 20% ethanol whereas E 10 91 gasohol or 95 gasohol is only 10% ethanol

There is no sticker on it, but I guess the previous owner didn't like it and removed it. I just checked the papers and it was first registered in Nov 2008(2551). I saw another one in a shop, who had the sticker, and my frame/engine (0043733) number was higher, so suppose mine is the newer.
Good to know that I can use 95 as well, as E-10 91 gasohol is still hard to find here.
Regarding the E-20 it was just a thought, because of the additives they might be in or not. But there are probably better products on the market, you can just add to your usual fuel.
Anyhow thanks for the information.

[feelthenoise]

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My Phantom was bought new in Hua-Hin in 2005 and for the first 3 years it only drank 91 benzine. Then I was getting reports of peeps using gasahol so I gave it a try expecting it to be sick or die after 5 k's. But no ,in fact it has been weeks since putting in benzine and I think it goes just as well on gasahol ,it certainly has more bark from the exhaust and I feel sure by now something would of gone wrong if it was going to so ya-boo-suks to Benzine. Mind you when getting my 17 y.o. Benz serviced a couple of years ago and asked if I could use 95 gasahol Mr Benz C/Rai said no no no many times. So hurrah for Benzine !! I shall go now....Phil.

[johnnysneds]

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Years ago I was the owner of an 01' R1 which suffered Gasohol damage to the fuel system. After dismantling the carb I found a red gunge film on all the internal surfaces. Also there were rubber particles from an affected fuel hose found within the float chamber, after cleaning, replacing components and filling with Benzene95 it was fine. The bottom line is Gasohol will react with certain types of rubbers/plastics found in fuel systems (usually older bikes) if left to sit for some time. If you don't experience any of these issues using Gasohol all well and good for you, but what about the guys who are being affected by Gashol and what happens when they phase Benzene out, do well just scrap our bikes or strip the fuel system down when required? If you contact your respective manufacturer they may be able to assist in supplying suitable components for use with Gasohol, good luck with that.
The discussion whether Benzine or Gasohol produces more power, I believe it has nothing to do with this, rather the octane rating. If your bike is designed to run on 95 and you put 91 in, the timing will retard and you will lose power. The other way around you will just lose out in your pocket with no power difference.
I am the proud owner of a new WR450F and I am a little concerned about putting Gasohol into her. The new models still have a carb. I have asked the question on another thread if there are other owners around using 95 Gasohol without issues. The manual clearly states E10 Gasohol 95 octane rated is acceptable. I'm kinda happy with this. Only time will tell......I'm sure it'll be fine, just the experiences in the past with Gasohol aren't too reassuring.

[Captain_Slash]

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The manual clearly states E10 Gasohol 95 octane rated is acceptable

I personally would use 95 gasohol in it then

[sam14300]

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I do not claim to know anything about the problems you do or do not have but thought the following info my explain some of the symptoms mentioned here. The following was taken from Wikipedia.
"
The octane number of a fuel is measured in a test engine, and is defined by comparison with the mixture of 2,2,4-trimethylpentane (iso-octane) and heptane which would have the same anti-knocking capacity as the fuel under test: the percentage, by volume, of 2,2,4-trimethylpentane in that mixture is the octane number of the fuel. For example, petrol with the same knocking characteristics as a mixture of 90% iso-octane and 10% heptane would have an octane rating of 90.[1] This does not mean that the petrol contains just iso-octane and heptane in these proportions, but that it has the same detonation resistance properties. Because some fuels are more knock-resistant than iso-octane, the definition has been extended to allow for octane numbers higher than 100.
Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel (see heating value). It is only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner. Where the octane number is raised by blending in ethanol, energy content per volume is reduced."

With this info I would assume ignition timing and cylinder compression would greatly effect combustion. Hope this helps.

Steve.

[johnnysneds]

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Hey Steve,

A bit in-depth, but good info none the less. Basically the article you quoted means what I previously stated but in a simpler form. When you hear a knocking noise it's basically the compression ratio spontaneously combusting the air/fuel mixture before the spark-plug has time to do it's job, which can have an adverse effect on your engine. The higher octane fuels have a better resistance against this happening, hence using 91 in and engine designed for 95 will either result in a retard in engine timing (resulting in HP loss) or knocking (your engine management hasn't sussed out how to compensate). 95 in an engine designed for 91 won't make a difference as the spontaneous combustion will never happen before the sparkplug ignite, and therefore a waste of money as 91 which it was designed for would do the same job.
We are straying a little from the main point of the discussion. Gasohol will damage certain components within a fuel system, there is no doubt about it going by what members are saying. It is also clear that it seems to be mostly isolated to older models with carbs.
I think it is important to separate what different octane ratings will do to the performance of your bike with the adverse effects Gasohol has on some older components, two separate issues here guys that it's important not to get confused with.

[sam14300]

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Johnny,

This is exactly what I wanted to bring up, but as I am not known on this site I figured a quote would avoid the phrase of: "He doesn't know what he's talking about."

Steve.