Insurance question...

richie_thailand · Feb 28, 2007

Newbie here - just checked out this forum for the first time, great info!

I'm getting in to turing around SE Asia by bike - traveled alot, but on 2 wheels,the freedom is just amazing. I blame an English guy called Nick at Koh Kong of Sauna Garden for getting me in ot it.

I'm travelling on normal travel insurance that excludes cover for riding bikes when i check small print. I am in Saigon at the moment (not on a bike) and plan to hire a bike from Hanoi and do a 2 week trip up in the NW of the country, returning the bike to Haoi. Then a flight to Laos and a further 2 / 3 weeks cruising around on a rented bike from Vte.... Hapy Days!

BUT, how can I ensure that I am fully covered insurance wise? Have contacted my insrance company for an add-on that would cover motorbikes, but they rejected it saying that they don't provide such cover.

Any ideas would be much appreiated as would rather be safe than sorry...

Richie.

DavidFL · Feb 28, 2007

Doubtful that you will find anything "reasonable" moving from country to country like that.
1st question though is due you have a valid driving licence for motorcycles?
In Thailand I think that Bupha Insurance
http://www.bupathailand.com/wwt_ins.asp#
do some travel insurance that covers motorcycle travel, but best check with them.

tomdegerth · Mar 1, 2007

Bupa is crap regarding bike accidents. I am covered by Bupa, and in ANY bike related accident the health insurance covers only 25%. Check with them, but i believe its still the same.
brgs,
Tom

BikeTourist · Mar 1, 2007

I have progressed a similar enquiry with BUPA for my arrival this weekend. Email exchanges outlined below.

My question: "I want to hire a motorcycle for 9 days. I have standard travel insurance already. I would like to buy medical insurance so that if I have a crash, I am covered for treatment and evacuation from Thailand. Please tell me if you can cover this and how I can purchase a policy."

Their email response: "With regards to your inquiry, we are pleased to offer our Travel health insurance detail as per attached file. The premium depends on period of cover. For inbound (tourist visit Thailand, maximum 90 days) travel insurance will limited to cover in Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia."

So, not exactly a specific response to my query.
The file they sent contains this in the exclusions along with things like child birth, self harm, pre-existing condtions: "Hazardous activities including winter sports and scuba diving."

If the 25% payout for motorcycle related injuries is still correct, they are not making it very clear. Especially when they also say:
"For persons covered under the Gold Travel Plan BUPA has an agreement with SOS International to provide emergency medical assistance including evacuation and repatriation of the covered person or his/her mortal remains that must be authorized in advance by SOS International.
If you should suffer a serious accident resulting in permanent total disablement, loss of limbs, total loss of sight in one or both eyes, or death, BUPA will pay the full sum insured as shown under the personal accident benefit in your policy."

Out of three levels of service available, GOLD SILVER BRONZE, it seems GOLD is the only one with Evac/Repatriation

For 8 days the premium is 1145 Bhat, 15 days 1445 Baht
increasing in increments to 180 days (6,245 Baht),

Gold gives:
2 mill Baht (30,000 GBP) for Medical expenses
1 mill Baht (15,000 GBP) for personal accident
30 mill Baht (450,000 GBP) for Emergency Med Assistance, Evacuation, Repatriation & Repatriation of remains.

I figure that 25% of these figures will still cover moderate injuries...? But thankfully I have never been in the situation to find out.

Tomdegerth, did you find out about 25% from a hospital bed?

I have emailed them back asking for clarification...

DavidFL · Mar 1, 2007

quote:

Originally posted by BikeTourist

I have progressed a similar enquiry with BUPA for my arrival this weekend. Email exchanges outlined below.

My question: "I want to hire a motorcycle for 9 days. I have standard travel insurance already. I would like to buy medical insurance so that if I have a crash, I am covered for treatment and evacuation from Thailand. Please tell me if you can cover this and how I can purchase a policy."

Their email response: "With regards to your inquiry, we are pleased to offer our Travel health insurance detail as per attached file. The premium depends on period of cover. For inbound (tourist visit Thailand, maximum 90 days) travel insurance will limited to cover in Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia."

So, not exactly a specific response to my query.
The file they sent contains this in the exclusions along with things like child birth, self harm, pre-existing condtions: "Hazardous activities including winter sports and scuba diving."

If the 25% payout for motorcycle related injuries is still correct, they are not making it very clear. Especially when they also say:
"For persons covered under the Gold Travel Plan BUPA has an agreement with SOS International to provide emergency medical assistance including evacuation and repatriation of the covered person or his/her mortal remains that must be authorized in advance by SOS International.
If you should suffer a serious accident resulting in permanent total disablement, loss of limbs, total loss of sight in one or both eyes, or death, BUPA will pay the full sum insured as shown under the personal accident benefit in your policy."

Out of three levels of service available, GOLD SILVER BRONZE, it seems GOLD is the only one with Evac/Repatriation

For 8 days the premium is 1145 Bhat, 15 days 1445 Baht
increasing in increments to 180 days (6,245 Baht),

Gold gives:
2 mill Baht (30,000 GBP) for Medical expenses
1 mill Baht (15,000 GBP) for personal accident
30 mill Baht (450,000 GBP) for Emergency Med Assistance, Evacuation, Repatriation & Repatriation of remains.

I figure that 25% of these figures will still cover moderate injuries...? But thankfully I have never been in the situation to find out.

Tomdegerth, did you find out about 25% from a hospital bed?

I have emailed them back asking for clarification...

And my understanding is that in Thailand they dont consider motorcycling a hazardous activity as everyone does it. Also I think that cycling is excluded because it is regarded as hazardous. Weird isn't it?

Tom - we are talking about travel accident insurance here, not general health insurance. you are probably right regarding the general health, but not about the travel (i think.) Regardless, (& debatedly) something is probably better than nothing. Some please correct me if you think im wrong.....

scotty007 · Mar 1, 2007

I have looked into the BUPA inbound travel insurance as well,(and in fact have used it twice) and have also not had any sucess with clarifying the motorcyle accident coverage, but in the BUPA travel insurance booklet it clearly states in the exclusions, that motorcyle accidents are not covered. Below is the text from myself to Mrs Orarat Thamrongveerachart [[email protected]]of the Pattaya BUPA office, who is very efficient with policy issue.

Dear Khun Orarat,

I had a holiday policy from you in December, what I need to know, is holiday insurance available with motorcycle accident coverage, as I ride a motorbike when in Thailand, if not what is available.

Regards
Stephen

Dear Mr. Stephen,

Thank you very much for your email. Our Travel Insurance will cover both Accident & Sickness. For any road accident, you can present the membership at our network hospitals (no need to pay in advance) but if for another accident or sickness, you have to pay first and reimbursement back later with original receipt and doctor report.

Best regards,

Orarat T.

You may have more success with LMG, they do not have motorcycle accidents exclusions in their policy, here is there URL www.lmginsurance.co.th

Scotty[

]

BikeTourist · Mar 2, 2007

Well, BUPA replied.
My question was: Please can you confirm that in the event of a motorcycle related accident, that you are able to cover 100% of the medical costs

The first response was a cryptic, two word reply "Alright sir" which made me laugh and more confused, so I asked again for clarity.

Answer (pasted exactly, errors included)
"For General Exclusion, the company will not pay benefits for such as pre-existing conditions (mens any disease, illness or injury or symtoms and complications thereof for which the insured person was treated or knew about before the commencement date of the policy,in addition exclustions such as dangerous sports or activities including hunting for animals, racing of all kinds including car, boat and horse racing, water and snow ski-ing, skating and skateboarding, boxing, bungy jumping, mountain
clumbing with equipment; diving with oxygen tank , etc.

In case of medical expensses from motorcycle accident , it will be covered because it is not in policy's exclusions that you can find more details from attached file below on page 5-8..."

The attached file is long, and contains the usual legal speak.
Under the Exclusions towards the end it states nothing will be paid for injury sustained "While the insured person is riding or traveling on a motorcycle".

It now appears that this policy which was recommended for the purposes of covering motorcycle injury, is in fact not going to cover motorcycle injury.

Replies sent to me by Chanapat Prasertcharoensuk

What is going on here? Is there are language barrier? Are they trying to rip us off?

tomdegerth · Mar 2, 2007

Sorry for the late reply here, yes u guys are right, i was talking about general health insurance while u talked travel insurance. I will check out LMG, maybe switch to them if they can offer better bikeriding insurance.
Thanks and cheers,
Tom

BikeTourist · Mar 2, 2007

A further response from BUPA shows that this is a minefield of legal speak and there is a lack of clarity about the difference between Medical Care and Personal Accident.

The agent is recycling the policy wording but it is not clear if he/she is trying to say that Yes, this policy will cover me, or No, this policy will not. There is no offer of a more appropriate policy, yet I have re-read the document and my conclusion (erring on the side of caustion) is that this policy will NOT cover injuries arising from a motorcycle accident, because of the statement on p10 under Exclusions for Personal Accident "while riding or travelling on a motorcycle".

The last paragraph of the agent's reply suggests some form of compensation would be due, but I can't find it in wording. It all seems a big contradiction to me.

The agent responded: (I added Bold for emphasis)

"Please find the attached policy wording again for answering this question.

1. General Exclusions : page 5
2. Coverage Agreement (Medical Treatment) : Page 6
- Exclusions (medical treatment) : Page 7-8 no have "While the insured person is riding or traveling on a motorcycle".

3. Coverage Agreement (Personal Accident) : Page 9
- Exclusions (medical treatment) : Page 10-11 have "While the insured person is riding or traveling on a motorcycle".

So, for Medical Cost, we will pay 100% and for Personal Accident, loss of life, dismemberment, loss of sight, loss of hearing, loss of speech or permanent disability within 180 days from the date of the accident or the injury causes the insured person to receive continuous medical treatments as an inpatient in hospital and loss of life occurs later because of such injury, the company will pay compensation in accordance with the sum insured stated in the Schedule."

I am out of time. I leave for Chiang Mai in 4 hours. I don't want this policy and LMG have not replied yet. My UK travel insurance will cover me up to 125cc. Looks like I am riding to Nan on a 110cc step thru scooter...!

daewoo · Mar 30, 2007

Sorry for re-activating a thread from the dead here.

I have been concerned about my coverage when riding in LOS so decided to see what the policy from the provider I uses says.

I use QBE, the cheapest policy for me, 34 YO, for 30 days cover is $Au232 (THB 6,124) for 13M Baht medical and evac cover.

The in the pre-amble policy states that it excludes "motorcycling without a proper licence", with wording later in the conditions;

quote:

We will not pay a claim that arises directly or indirectly because of any of the following:
1. A member of the travelling party:
(d) rides a motor cycle in excess of 100 cc (except as a pillion passenger)without a licence that is valid in your country of residence.

This is for full travel insurance, which is probably overkill when you are travelling alone, and without intention to claim for every little thing that upsets you plans. It does include Rental Vehicle insurance excess of up to $Au3000 (THB79K) which may be helpful if you could claim it against a CM rental shop.

It appears that you need to be a resident of Australia, or in Australia when the insurance is issued.

The NRMA Travel insurance Product Disclosure Statement states that;

quote:

We will not pay claims for, or which are directly or
indirectly caused by:
Motorcycling, unless the driver has a current motorcycle licence. This applies even if the driver is not required to hold a motorcycle licence because the driver has a motor vehicle licence, or a motorcycle licence is not required by law.

The price is significantly cheaper at $Au164 (THB4,340), and includes insurance up to $Au2000 (THB53K) but the policy doesn't state whether that includes motorcycles, only motor vehicles. You have to be an Australian resident, and start and finish your journey in Australia.

I have found a company http://www.1cover.com.au (Mondial Assistance) where you can get medical only cover for $Au119 (THB 3,138) for unlimted medical, evac, and public liability.

The policy states that;

quote:

WE WILL NOT PAY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IF:
Your claim arises from being in control of a motorcycle without a current Australian motorcycle licence or you are a passenger travelling on a motorcycle that is in the control of a person that does not hold a current motorcycle licence valid for the country you are travelling in.

Not sure if your need to be an Australian Resident.

Just though others might find this helpful.

Cheers,
Daewoo