Too important to be overlooked / Legal protection

Discussion in 'General Discussion / News / Information' started by PICO-PICO, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. I posted this earlier =

    Even more important than insured money is the question of legal protection.


    A friend was driving Sura Thani -Chumpron, a farmer tried to cross the high way, got hit and killed. It later turned out that the farmer was drunk. Police nevertheless found the driver guilty,
    that was denied by the judge, ( the evidence was obviously too much in favor of the driver, who had no legal representation, could´nt afford one.
    Interesting twist =
    the police said such denial of their conclusion had never happened before !!!

    The friend was lucky, still it took over 3 months before everything was sorted out, including a payment of 100.000b.
    During that time his passport was withheld by the police, no leaving the country !!


    Kind of restricting , isn't it?
    Plus 3 mos of uncertainty what will happen to you?? Must be nerve wrecking

    Question = what is available in Thailand in terms of legal protection ?
    I ´d be happy to pay for an insurance that puts the best Bkk law firm at my disposal. A name that hopefully signals to the police et altera=


    Doable ??
  2. I don't know if its do-able, but it sounds like a damn good idea! I would definetly be interested.
  3. Thais traditionally never question or challenge Mr Plod. Mr Plod and any body else with some sort of perceived authority is never challenged. Authority is always right. This applies to 99% of Thais - the poor,poorly educated or undeducated population. They are taught from birth never to question or challenge their parents or teachers and this inevitablly flows into the rest of Thai society. See my other comments in another thread about the education of my son.
    By law however it is the right of every Thai citizen to demand that a proper legal hearing takes place but the plod have deemed for generations that they deal with most issues and most Thais think that's the way it must be. Of course we all know why Mr Plod wants to deal with every issue out of court don't we?
    In reality if you can afford legal representation you just might find a different outcome in most cases. In this case the clearly innocent farang might not be required to pay out thousands (millions) of baht to Plod and the family of the drunk,unlicenced,under age kid riding an unregistered, uninsured motorbike without lights through a red light who got hit by a farang driving his legally registered car with full comprehensive insurance who is a qualified driver with a drivers licence earned rather than bought who just happened to be casually driving through his green light.
    Of course when fully insured the insurance company pays out but they rarely pursue the guilty because that means loss of face and you need to have "greng jai" for the poor who died becuase he's an idiot!
  4. JohhnyE you are so right absolutely spot on .

  5. The submissiveness is part of the Thai-culture, that simply a fact--accepted.

    But what to do if we get into real trouble?
    You want to fight it and you want to have a non-submissive Thai laywer on your side. Such lawyers are around too.

    Allianz Insurance is active here, but their web site is in Thai, I know they provide legal protection insurance , in Thailand too ??

    New Zealand Insurance I could not figure out.

    Lets assume that some 50% of the GTR bikers are interested in such cover I could imagine that we can get an insurance company interested, if such policy does not exist as yet.

  6. Pico - I have a Thai lawyer educated in America. He is very aggressive and shocked me in one case a few years ago in a dispute with my house builder and the consultant engineers.
    In the meeting he intoduced himsel and then said what we were there for and continued by saying in these exact words .. "you f..k with my client and I wil f..k with you" As they all spoke English you could imagine how the Thais felt - he had beaten them into submission before the meeting really go started.
    But later in another dispute with the same builder when the house was "completed" and he took me to court for non payment of final invoices (another long story) the same lawyer was much more conciliatory and I ended up paying a fraction of what the builder claimed even though my contention was that I pay him nothing and in fact he should pay me for damages.
    He suggested I should have some sympathy (greng jai again) for this Putz. I had a feeling afterwars that he was playing both sides even though I had him on a performance based payment deal.
    Pico - who are these non submissive lawyers you say are around. This is the type we may all need at some point?
    And regarding submissive non confrontational cultures - we could go on and on and on about the consequences of that.
    I will check out this insurance thing (i.e. legal coverage) with my insurers and let you know.
  7. John,
    your f..... US trained lawyer may be just the right guy, whom I want to be on my side, at my disposal.

    Even if a legal protection insurance policy is available here, as you rightly say, it does not guarantee that an a.. kicking lawyer is representing your case.
    Might well be a submissive one, I have seen it . Truelly made me throwing up.

    I resent being at the mercy of little people, I resent being helpless.
    I resent it so much that I rather pay some money upfront right here and now then to ever get into such situation.

    In short, if no insurance is available I rather will pay a retainer to (your) lawyer, so he knows who I am.

    This will be my self-mandated helmet --- to some degree----against lawlessness.

    I would think that carrying a

    issued by xyz

    with you will already set the tone straight.

  8. John , you are so right in saying =

    .......anybody else with some sort of perceived authority is never challenged. Authority is always right.

    Todays Bkk Post reports about a Thai plane that skidded off the run way but it never happend !!!

    Airport officials say they have the whole incident on a videotape .

    While several parties have confirmed that the incident did take place, THAI executive vice president Narongsak Sangapong yesterday FLATLY denied that it ever took place.

    ''There was no such incident. I have not received any reports about it,'' he stated, insisting the story was based on ''imagination and hearsay''.

    I will watch with great interest if this EVP of THAI gets fired

  9. Same thing happened back in 1998 with a Quantos jumbo at Bankok its undercarriage collapsed on landing , but itr was Quantos who gotr the Thais to cover it up so Quantos could claim their airline was 100% accident free.
    worse still the insurance companies and FAA said the plane was unrepairable so Quantos fixed it themselves in Bkk . its still in their fleet. The plane is under Aussie Government issued cover as it has not clearance from any trade body or insurance company safety .
  10. Quantas, wonderful example of how everyone will always try to hide bad news, here or there..

    That is the reason why I like being in Thailand. When I see that the major North -- South road in Phuket being redone without any interruption, in basically no time with no precautions that we are used too, the traffic flowing unhindered between big tar machines , when I see barefooted men doing roof covering , no security belt, nothing.

    And it works.

    I just want to make sure that I take precautions against the most awkward situations which are beyond my control.

    2 things = health and not getting into trouble with the authorities.

    I am confident that there will be an answer.
  11. With regards to accident..and/ insurance for cyclists, I believe forming a group policy might be do-able for GT-Riders.

    In Pattaya, a local farang insurance broker contacted various insurance companies and found an acceptable one which created a group policy available to farangs that are members of the two area 'Expat Clubs'. The insurer is ThaiSri Insurance Company. I was able to get a million-Bt health insurance policy, which was regularly priced (for my age group) at 31,000-Bt. My cost, through the group, for the same policy was 12,000-Bt. They offered policies of greater and lesser coverage at similar savings. Unfortunately (for me), ThaiSri recently stopped renewing policies for those just short of..or over age 65.

    Might something similar to this...either accident or health be created for GT-Riders??
    only 11,000-Bt
  12. that is good news, cdrw.

    Frankly I didnt think through properly , I assume that any accident resulting in medical treatment is covered by my German health insurance. Certainly more expensive than a Thai insurance but no limitations, And I personally have experienced the necessity of having no amount limitation.

    Here comes now the tricky part =
    it turned out to be my absolute luck that the other driver involved in that major accident fled the scene.
    Why luck ? If the driver had stayed or been identified then it would have come to endless fights between my and his insurance about the share of guilt, i.e. the sharing of cost for 2 years hospitalization in 3 countries. No way that I would have had the same quailty treatment under a normal 3rd class car insurance. My luck was that he was not identified and my 1. class insurance paid everything.

    The conclusion seems to be = I am not insured under my German health insurance for traffic accidents where 3rd parties are involved. At least it would be ignorant to assume this as a fact because I may not be as lucky as lst time= that the 3rd party is not identifiable.
    I will verify with my insurance company.

    But if this assumption is correct then I want to have a traffic / health insurance plus a legal protection

    Any input from others ?

  13. Here is the answer from my German health insurer =

    All medical expenses are covered. In the event that a third party is involved , Thai or other, the insurance will advance all funds.( to the hospital, etc )
    The so-called recourse department will then sort out the sharing of insurance claims. This happens insurance to insurance without involvement of the insured person.

    In other words health insurance is of no concern.

    Question remains = how to proceed with the legal protection issue, the very specific Thai risk ???

    Any suggestions JohhnyE or CDRW ??
  14. @ CDRW

    would you mind talking to the Pattaya broker and asking him, if he knows of legal protection insurance,

    Your savings on the group health insurance is impressive with 1/3 vs an individual policy . I am surprised to see not more questions, comments on this from others.

    @ JohhnyE you may to talk to your US trained lawyer. As a brain storming idea = can he envision a GOLDEN PROTECTION CARD ???
  15. Talked privately to a senior police officer.

    His recommendation if you get into trouble with the police =

    dont make statements, the risk of misrepresentation in the protocol, in
    future proceedings is just too big

    keep your mouth shut, repeat again and again =

  17. KEV,

    1. on the subject of insurance
    After having had some talks for me 2 points are important=

    to have money it a critical situation is not the point. But is the money liquid ?? Could I, e.g., within hours come up with 100.000 THB in cash in any location throughout Thailand. No I could not.
    This is the reason why I want to have an insurance agent placing a bond within that hour.

    I prefer NZ or any other insurance which provides me with conditions in a perfect English. Not an insurance where my rights and duties are written in questionable English plus where in the end only the original Thai policy is legally enforceable. SO I would be again at the mercy of some translator.

    Precondition for any foreign insurance is that they are well represented on the ground, i.e. availability through an agent within hours.)

    One other name that came up is Q B E , the largest Australian insurer.
    Does anyone deal with them here in Thailand ??

    Any insights for others on the subject ??
    What is important for you ??


    PS on my trip to NZ, Still looking for cheaper options , The last indication for flying my vehicle over was US $ 7000 return. Still cheaper than renting locally but still ff.....g expensive if you add for 2 people fight tickets plus accommodation plus at least occasionally some food
  18. jeez $7000 us that does seem steep.must be a cheaper option.just e-mailed t john..was coming down to c u guys,,but not a lot happening.i can look on the NZ side for shipping your bike if u wish.think u can buy a bike in NZ cheaper than that..with a chair.have a look at KEV
  19. Personaly I carry my lawyers card with me programed into my phone. Works exclusively with farrrangs and she can be a gentle sole or a tiger as needed. Good for Issan as she is located in Nong Khai. It can be a lot cheaper to pay here fees then to be at the mercy of sharks
  20. Hi Friends,

    In simple words, does someone has recommandations, advises and informations on insuring big bikes and drivers ?

    For instance a DUCATI, brand new ?

    It seems quite complicate but I am sure someone should have the key ?

    Thanks by advance, accurate informations would be welcome
  21. Azoulay
    get in touch with Jay @ Ducati in Thonglor.
    They are selling new machines & will be able to get cover for their bikes.
    He's a decent guy & I'm sure he'll point you in the right direction, even if you are not buying through him.
  22. Hi Rhodie,

    Thanks for this, no idea apart from that ?

    I am not sure to catch your signature phrase maybe once you could develop it....
  23. Re insurance I ve got something in the works & should know in a few days what is available
    individually or as a group for
    · accident
    · medical / health
    · 3rd party / comprehensive insurance
    · travel insurance
    for expatriate motorcyclists in Thailand?
    Limitations and /or exclusions for motorcyclists.
  24. David,

    issue is that I do not understand so much about the system of insurance in Thailand.

    Of course, we -In Europe- when we come in Thailand we have several insurance functioning BUT what about a specific insurance in Thailand for someone who buy a bike and ride this bike ?

    I don't know what covers the famous "Porobo" which seems mandatory, what if you have to spend weeks in the hospital as our dear friend month ago ?

    For those who stays in Thailand, such like you, since a while it should be easy to answer.

    Thanks in advance.
  25. David, pls try to get a comprehensive and comprehensible answer in proper English. Not Thai language should govern whatever policy but English only.

    I believe we as a group ought to represent an interesting target.

    And pls dont forget the issue of legal protection.

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