2012 Honda CRF250L

Dec 27, 2007
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Changnoi1;278374 wrote: If you have 100k it does not matter that 86k is expensive and 120k cheap ..... you are just missing 20k and for that market the D-Tracker/KLX 125 are made in a mafia-controled market. I would not surprise me if the 125cc segment is going to be replaced by 150cc (see pcx).

Chang Noi
I reckon most customers (Thais) buy these bikes on finance and the difference in the monthly payment between an 86k baht bike and a 120k baht bike, stretched out over 36 or 48 months really isn't much.

No idea what you're trying to say in regards to "mafia-controlled market"... :confused:

The bike market in Thailand keep growing and more and more models become available every year- I feel very fortunate to have a growing selection of bikes to choose from! More bikes and more competition can only be good for the consumer.

Happy Trails!

Tony
 
Nov 21, 2010
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Tony,
You might be right about the price & finance but on the other hand look how good the CBR's (150 & 250) are selling .... a big selling point must be the price.

What kind of bikes (and cars) we can legally (and within an reasonable price range) buy is controlled by laws setup by family-clans that produce bikes & cars in Thailand. That is what I call "mafia controlled".

And yes the market is changing, but still very controlled by a very small group of people.

Chang Noi
 

KZ25

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Nov 19, 2011
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I don't think the 125cc class will be 'replaced' - guess Honda tried to best the Yamaha Nouvo 135 with the PCX 150.

Yamaha is overdue with a FI Nouvo; the bike was last updated four years ago. Wonder what they come up with and when.
 
Dec 27, 2007
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Changnoi1;278380 wrote: Tony,
You might be right about the price & finance but on the other hand look how good the CBR's (150 & 250) are selling .... a big selling point must be the price.

What kind of bikes (and cars) we can legally (and within an reasonable price range) buy is controlled by laws setup by family-clans that produce bikes & cars in Thailand. That is what I call "mafia controlled".

And yes the market is changing, but still very controlled by a very small group of people.

Chang Noi
The market IS changing, and it's changing FAST!

I have a mate who's pretty upset with Ducati, Thailand right now because he bought a Diavel Carbon 4-5 months ago at an eye-watering price, yet now you can buy the exact same bike, manufactured in Thailand for about 400,000 baht less! OUCH! :crazy:

That's pretty low of Ducati to sell the pricey import when they KNOW full well that the same bike will soon be available at a much lower price.

Suddenly my friend's Diavel has lost more than 400,000 baht in re-sale value. He actually seems to be taking it quite well, all things considered. I would be pretty livid.

Bottom line, vehicles made in Thailand will always be cheaper than imports.

I don't see how that's a "mafia" issue or even how it's controlled by any of the big families in Thailand- it's simply national policy to tax imports. In that respect Thailand isn't very different from most other developing nations that tax imports to protect and promote their domestic manufacturers and domestically produced products.

Going forward as Thailand enters in to more and more free trade agreements with trading partners around the world we will slowly but surely see a reduction in duties and taxes on imported goods. The Free Trade Agreement with Japan has already greatly reduced the amount of tax paid on Japanese vehicles. But we don't see that reflected in the prices of imported Japanese goods because the Yen keeps getting stronger and erases any savings we might expect from the reduction in import tax.

The strong Japanese Yen is also a big motivating factor in Japan's push to move more industrial production to lower cost countries. The sky high Yen means that many goods produced in Japan simply aren't competitive on the global market anymore.
 
Nov 7, 2007
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High import taxes on bikes and cars have nothing to do with "mafia" - I mean lots of things in Thailand are controlled by actual mafia or one of the ruling families, but this one's actually just policy to try and get production moved to here. I find it very annoying but have to admit it seems to be working, too, with lots of car factories here, and now also with bikes moving here.

And with Ducati's move here, there's certainly a lot of movement in the market. Ducati either isn't able to or doesn't want to match the others in price but their plans for SEA certainly seem ambitious... Kawasaki and Honda sell at or even under (Honda) US prices. Ducatis are still about 40% more..

Back to the Honda CRF250L - I think this will be a pretty good bike, matching the KLX for features, with lower price, and better gas mileage. Styling is really nice, too.
 
Dec 27, 2007
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nikster;278391 wrote:
Back to the Honda CRF250L - I think this will be a pretty good bike, matching the KLX for features, with lower price, and better gas mileage. Styling is really nice, too.

Well no, the CRF250L doesn't match the features of the KLX250. Lower spec suspension is probably why the Honda will be cheaper than the Kwacker-

KLX front suspension: 43mm Inverted Cartridge Fork with 16-Way Compression Damping Adjustment

KLX Rear suspension: Uni-Trak with Adjustable Preload, 16-Way Compression and Rebound Damping Adjustment

CRF-L Front suspension: 43mm USD forks. Non-adjustable.

CRF-L Rear suspension: Pro-Link monoshock with Adjustable Preload.

Since you've owned an ER6n and now have a Versys I'm sure you can appreciate the benefit of the higher spec suspension in your Versys. IMO the better suspension in the Versys is well worth the small price premium over the ER6n/f, wouldn't you agree? :)
 

KZ25

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Nov 19, 2011
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No, the CRF doesn't match the features of the KLX, but the point here is price; Honda has always been more expensive than Kawasaki (the CBR250R is a welcome exception) and you can't expect a Honda fitted out the same as a Kawasaki for 20% less.
If the CRF250L would be more like the CRF250X (which is $ 7.150 in the US) it would have to be around 180,000 THB here.
That would make a lot of dirt riders happy but scare off even more potential buyers who are looking for a decent, affordable enduro.
 
Nov 7, 2007
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@Tony - yeah well I've heard different things about the CRF suspension. I think we'll have to wait and see (and try) before we can judge it to be worse than the KLX. It's less adjustable, so that's not good, but what about overall quality?

The problem is of course I don't really know what this stuff means - Uni-Trak vs Pro-Link - which is better? I have no idea. Does the KLX have an aluminum rear swing arm like the Honda? I guess not since it's not in the specs so that's a plus for the Honda.

One thing I've found out about suspension setup is that it's tricky. A whole lot of thought went into the factory setup of the Versys, for example, and if you start to mess with it you better be prepared to spend a lot of time on getting another good setup. Lots of factors are involved. Need to try out...

And yeah the Versys suspension is a huge improvement over the ER-6n's, no question :)
 

Blake

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Aug 14, 2005
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Ian Bungy;277744 wrote: I would not take too much notice of the Specs being thrown around! Most of them are incorrect anyway! There were multiple Models of the XR 250 and the last of them made were about the same specs as the KLX. Everyone complained that the KLX was underpowered and over weight when it first came out! Yes the engine was restricted but once that was fixed it is faster than the XR 250. I have No doubt there will be the same stories for the CRF and I also have no doubt once the first issues are resolved it will be more than a match for the KLX if not a better Bike??? I will be getting one so will let everyone know once I have sorted it out and Compare it to My own KLX.
I spoke to a gentleman this week who has Ordered one He claimed along with the Performance ECU which they have as the standard CRF is restricted same as the KLX. I will try and find out some more information from the Bangkok Motorshow next week. Fingers Crossed. Whatever happens it should still be a decent Bike and welcome competition to Kawasaki! Wouldn't it be great if one of them actually made a Bike in the 400 to 650cc range!!!
Hehee, I have never even heard of a claim that a derestricted KLX is faster than an XR250! Its simply not true. My friend has a KLX that has the juice box and matching pipe which apparently does way more than the simple de-restiction and my (recently sold) 1997 XR250L (all stock) would walk away from it hands down, from a light, up a hill, on the straight, where ever. There was absolutely no competition. It was actually kind of sad since his bike is still like new.

Aside from all that, I do hope that this thing finally comes out soon. I know a guy who ordered some through a guy connected with the BKK dealer (who he also pre-ordered CBR250s though before) and he is now being told it will be late May. I hope that its sooner than that though. The official release date in Japan is mid-May so maybe Thailand has to wait till after that.

Oh ya, and according to Honda's own website, they are quoting 143kg now which is good news! http://world.honda.com/news/2012/2120413New-CRF250L-OnOff-Road-Model/index.html

As far as pricing, its not as simple as "if the honda is cheaper, its because it is inferior". The larger a manufacturer (of anything basically), the lower their costs are. Honda can buy parts cheaper with their purchasing power. And since they will be mass producing these bikes (making/selling much more than Kawa worldwide) their production costs are also much lower. And with their experience being one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world, they are simply more efficient.

I am not trying to say that the Honda is better, or even equal because I do not know about this yet. I am saying that you can't assume a cheaper price from a bigger company mean a lesser quality product. If Honda were to produce a "Honda KLX" they could do it cheaper than Kawasaki does due to their superior purchasing power, mass production and efficiency.
 
Nov 7, 2007
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Mid May - argh... they promised us "March"... I guess that meant that they were able to put one up on the BKK motorshow on the 29th, nothing more.

Let's judge the bike when it comes out. I expect it to be pretty competitive.
 

Blake

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Aug 14, 2005
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nikster;278429 wrote: Mid May - argh... they promised us "March"... I guess that meant that they were able to put one up on the BKK motorshow on the 29th, nothing more.

Let's judge the bike when it comes out. I expect it to be pretty competitive.
Mid-May is the release date "in Japan". I wouldn't be surprised if the end of May is true for here... For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't released at the end of May.
 
Mar 11, 2008
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TonyBKK;278350 wrote: Apparently Kawasaki think there's a market for a 150cc road legal dirt bike. At the Bangkok Motor Show they introduced their new KLX150, which is a road legal version of their KLX140 (KX140)

278350=10321-klx150s_default.jpg


278350=10320-2012-kawasaki-klx-140l-3_1280x0w.jpg


Sorry, I forgot to note the price.
I will say.. its a surprisingly solid little bike.. If thats the same carbed model, they sell as a 150 on bali, the locals tune them to go like stink. Theres big bores (up into the 170 range) and even a stroker crank which puts it over 200 I think.

They are small, light, agile, etc.. Now obviously a big lump like myself isnt going to have a great time on it, but if your say 6 ft and under.. sub 80 kg.. Theres a lot to be said for bouncing about a smaller lighter machine.

Plus we have to assume its going to be nice and cheap.

I actually think this is a good idea by Kwaker, given local market conditions.
 

KZ25

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Nov 19, 2011
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I see lots of the little 110cc KSRs here in Phuket, but maybe only one or two KLX/Tracker 125.

The bike is not bad as such but I guess the price is just too high. After all it's still a 125 with a very basic engine like a Honda Wave's but the Tracker costs over 30,000 THB more!

Went to the Patong Honda dealer today and asked about the CRF250L; they had no idea at all when it will be available.

Guess I'll read it on the net somewhere before the local dealer knows...
 

crs

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Mar 12, 2012
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LivinLOS;278437 wrote: I will say.. its a surprisingly solid little bike.. If thats the same carbed model, they sell as a 150 on bali, the locals tune them to go like stink. Theres big bores (up into the 170 range) and even a stroker crank which puts it over 200 I think.

They are small, light, agile, etc.. Now obviously a big lump like myself isnt going to have a great time on it, but if your say 6 ft and under.. sub 80 kg.. Theres a lot to be said for bouncing about a smaller lighter machine.

Plus we have to assume its going to be nice and cheap.

I actually think this is a good idea by Kwaker, given local market conditions.
A google translation of KLX150 review (Indonisian) - http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=id&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Findo-dirtbike.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F05%2Ftest-ride-klx-150-di-medan-offroad.html
 
Mar 11, 2008
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KZ25;278493 wrote: I see lots of the little 110cc KSRs here in Phuket, but maybe only one or two KLX/Tracker 125.

The bike is not bad as such but I guess the price is just too high. After all it's still a 125 with a very basic engine like a Honda Wave's but the Tracker costs over 30,000 THB more!
Not only is woefully under powered, thanks to the emissions issues..

But its not easy / cheap to hop up, due to the EFI system. The KSR sells like hot cakes because as well as being the right price point, its also very easy to hop up, theres a huge market for aftermarket goodies, and a huge custom scene making them into everything from KTM look alikes, stunt tools, or even pocket sportbikes etc.. The tuning and tweaking side has made a scene that people want to be part of. That never was possible (cheap enough) with the EFI 125.
 

KZ25

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Nov 19, 2011
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The CRF250L has been announced for some time now - we don't even know when that one will be available!
 

DavidFL

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Chiang Khong
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KZ25;278547 wrote: The CRF250L has been announced for some time now - we don't even know when that one will be available!
Niyom Panich the Honda dealer in Cnx has been distributing pamphlets on the bike, but no price. So maybe the bike is or isn't out on sale in Cnx yet. Weird to go about it like this eh?
 
Nov 21, 2010
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Davidfl;278549 wrote: Niyom Panich the Honda dealer in Cnx has been distributing pamphlets on the bike, but no price. So maybe the bike is or isn't out on sale in Cnx yet. Weird to go about it like this eh?
Indeed weird .... although I do not look much Thai TV I saw now 2 times a Honda commercial where also a CRF250L looking bike was used.

Chang Noi
 
Dec 27, 2007
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Davidfl;278549 wrote: Niyom Panich the Honda dealer in Cnx has been distributing pamphlets on the bike, but no price. So maybe the bike is or isn't out on sale in Cnx yet. Weird to go about it like this eh?
Hell, at the Bangkok Motor Show they didn't even have pamphlets...

APe Honda staff at Bangkok Motor Show were completely clueless (as usual)...
crazy.gif

Price? Mai ru...
huh.png

Sales Date? Mai ru...
passifier.gif

You have a spec sheet? Mai mee...
wacko.png

Unbelievable!
coffee1.gif
 
Nov 7, 2007
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crs;278515 wrote: Does anyone know for sure if/when the KLX150 will be available?
Kawasaki Real MotoSports Bangkok posted on Facebook
Open for pre-order now. KLX150 and D-Tracker150 (carbureter type).
D-Tracker150: 79500 Thb (green, Orange)
KLX150: 75000 Thb (green, black)
Tel 02 728 1605-6
 

crs

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Mar 12, 2012
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Asked at Kawasaki Chiang Mai yesterday - said should have some there in a week or two.

mbox999;278585 wrote: Kawasaki Real MotoSports Bangkok posted on Facebook
Open for pre-order now. KLX150 and D-Tracker150 (carbureter type).
D-Tracker150: 79500 Thb (green, Orange)
KLX150: 75000 Thb (green, black)
Tel 02 728 1605-6
 

crs

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Mar 12, 2012
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crs;278596 wrote: Asked at Kawasaki Chiang Mai yesterday - said should have some there in a week or two.
But the rear swingarm, handlebar, carbs, brakes and maybe suspension are apparently different/inferior to the KLX140L...
 

KZ25

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Nov 19, 2011
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crs;278615 wrote: But the rear swingarm, handlebar, carbs, brakes and maybe suspension are apparently different/inferior to the KLX140L...
Is that just hearsay or do you know that the components of the 150cc versions are different/inferior?