Quality Spoke Wheel Builders.

Biggles

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I've had spoke wheels laced/built in CM a few times, (which usually includes rim drilling a brand new rim), and its been hit and miss experience. On a good day its ok. But on on a bad one the rim drilling has been fairly un-round, eg drill was twisted not drilled straight & hole angle was wrong makes nipples and spokes not pull together straight. Does anyone know a wheel build specialist in CM or surrounds who does nice work?
 

canthai

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Try Chiang Mai motorsports -
He did my Ohlins conversions, if he does not know he just may well know who does a good job
 

Biggles

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Try Chiang Mai motorsports -
He did my Ohlins conversions, if he does not know he just may well know who does a good job
Thank you Canthai. I did think about asking you re this place.
 

Biggles

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I'm semi actively looking for a Wave AT to put some knobbly tires on.
Thankyou MikeRust. I know the bike you refer too. It was a great idea, IMHO
the best ever made in the auto genre. But I’ve not seen one for a long time.
If I see one for sale I will let you know.
 

Biggles

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Hello Ian Bungy. I look forward to meeting you & David U
in next few mths. Building a house with builder now
best to hang about & see it through...

Re: Wheel Build. Interesting exercise so far as
non-standard means finding those
who think laterally, & understands how things
relate to calc. real solutions that work properly...

EG Not bolt stuff together that is not compatible, as I now
have. Mai Dii Loi to quote singer Mali Wha Nar.

In West I was in MC Ind. 20 yrs on occasion. w dedicated wheel
builders who build for multitude of purposes every day. I since
found my solution studying wheel parts of many similar bikes.
I think you like to custom build as well, so you know this situ.

Globally, (& esp TH) is WIDER is better (looks). For me a 250/300
bike really used ADV is best wth 4.10 - 110/80 'ish rear & 2.75” -
3’00 90/90 ‘ish front, = in wide ON-OFF road situs. Theres also
ADV tyre avail. cost & size limitations. The plot thickens....
 

mikerust

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In West I was in MC Ind. 20 yrs on occasion. w dedicated wheel
builders who build for multitude of purposes every day.

But this isn't Kansas Dorothy. You have to adjust and have different aspirations. Don't most 17" alloy rims come predrilled?
 

Biggles

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'Hello Ian Bungy’. My writing said this.

I was writing to him, not you Mike. But as you ask...

Mike. Many Thais pride themselves on their work. Some do amazing work, some do not.
Mike. Suggesting 'Don't most 17" alloy rims come predrilled?' demonstrates you are
not at all well versed in motorcycle building or DIY repair. Have you ever actually studied or
worked with MC parts, aftermarket rims or other parts, or built/modified a bike with same?

Facts: Yes you may find exceptions esp on cheap mass market LAZADA level product.
Fact: Almost all high grade global quality alloy aftermarket rims
I've ever seen in 10 countries in West & Japan & TH over 40 years are NOT predrilled.
Italian, Spain, UK or Japanese product. Brands = Borani, Akront, Excel, DID. The
best money can buy. Even most of those do NOT EVER come pre-drilled...Why?

This is so that one size rim can be drilled at angles to suit any
given narrow, medium or wide hub, or different gauge (diameter) of spoke & nipple. Pre-drilling
means retailer has to keep far greater number of rims. Generally ONLY OEM factory rims are
pre-drilled, and for my bike they are at least 7 x more expensive 1,500B Vs 10,500B. Also,
the hole angle in OEM in rim size I want to use is incompatible.

No offence intended, but if you want to learn about this and make assumptions (written
as questions) you really need to get off your keyboard, build a real bike, and learn.

Your aspirations, how you integrate & what you accept in TH is your business. Its not mine.
It’d be appreciated if you would consider extending the same courtesy to others. Most I
know on GTRider are already extremely well versed on this, as we try to find ways to get
what we know we want/need, rather than being told we must put up with fudge.
 

mikerust

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I was writing to him, not you Mike.

Then you should have sent him a PM not used the open forum;)

I'll dig out a picture of my Indonesian "Wave" (alloy rims). Might not be easy as it was a while ago. Over many months I treated it like a Tamiya kit.

Bingo. Is 115cc with big valve head and a mystery cam. (If bigger than 115 one has to machine the case). Some parts were carried to Indo, some local. Ie. Indo bikes don't have a basket.

KICX0009.JPG.b5b5aa85fee4ddfc84c921ff85d64206.jpg


I understand spoked wheels can have different patterns depending on need. But surely then you need a different hub as well?

Many people living in Asia fret about the differences between here and their home country, often to the point of exasperation and all for naught.

I don't do ad hominem so don't take things too seriously or to heart.
 

Biggles

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Communicating on GT Rider has taught me old lessons, in a new way. Lessons I first discovered over 20 years ago.

Over 20 years ago, an old friend of mine once said that he far preferred using 1. face to face 2. phone. 3. email 4, in TXT in that order in business, regardless of whether he knew the client or not, but even more so with those who were new to him. At the time I’d never really thought about it because I’d mostly used phones in my business at that time. So I asked him why he had that opinion?

He replied with something like...Whats the point of both parties (who often do not know each other, their level of experience, how they like to be related to, or what sort of person they are) spending hours on keyboards trying to communicate often re complex subjects. He said its too easy for either side to make assumptions, &/or misreading &/or misinterpreting each others wants, intentions & emotions. This because you cannot see the person or read their face or emotions. Its a recipe for escalation of communication problems (he said). Upon thinking about it I agreed. I agree even more today. Why?

20 years later, I've never forgotten what my old friend said. Today we have social media which only makes it far worse. Anyone who watches the net as an independent can see that FaceBook thrives on just these kind of factors which set people off against each other. FB know that. So does Trip Advisor, just ask friends you have in TH travel and tourism industry. Its why I gave up FB & all others anything like it. So whats a solution?

IMHO the kind of subjects we discuss on GTRider motorcycles, riding, gear, travel, food and accom) would be far better talked about when and where possible via weekly, fortnightly or monthly over a meal & beer / coffee (whatever those on here want), at least occasionally, so that people can actually know each other for real There is so much knowledge to be shared, and we can do this far faster, in a far more friendly way, face to face.

The curse that has plagued the world for 3 years looks like its on its last legs, (hopefully) so maybe we can soon have a regular meet in CM say alternating between North CM and South CM, to keep it fair on travel time and distance. Maybe once a month to start with? I live in South CM and can suggest a few places. IMHO I’d choose one place North and one place South. A FB MC group I was involved with tried to do a different venue each time for MotoGP but their idea seemed to fail (I think) because often people could not find the all new venue each time we met.

So, what is the verdict folks?

PS: I’m not even a subscriber, because I have a technical issue which is a question for Dave U re payments. How do I PM on this website? If its easier to tell me how by including a TXT link of instructions to do it, just send that please if you want. Many thanks in advance.

PSS: Yes I know Dave U has his monthly dinners, which is great and I would love to go, and I’m very much looking forward to same. But I, like some others are stuck in one place, for a time, for various reasons. In my case thats building, so I cannot go away from CM for even a few days.
 

mikerust

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Dear Biggles,

Most of our rides only require one night away from home. OK no if one, say, has a dog but if not it should be feasible. We often or usually alternate between North and south (of the North0 and not all people attend both. From my experience not many talk about topics on the forum, it is more just pub banter. But as you say it is easier to judge the mood of the participants.

I look forward to seeing you soon.
 

Biggles

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Dear MikeRust

You said 'I understand spoked wheels can have different patterns depending on need. But surely then you need a different hub as well?"

Answer: Yes wheels can have different spoke patterns, but I do not seek to change my spoke pattern, nor did I ever say I wanted to. How
did you establish that I want to change spoke pattern? I do not.

You said 'Many people living in Asia fret about the differences between here and their home country, often to the point of exasperation and all for naught. I don't do ad hominem so don't take things too seriously or to heart'.

Can you see we have already had this discussion about fretting expats Mike?
You have already raised it, and I have already answered it. its deja vu. Why do we need to discuss this again?
 

Biggles

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OK. Let me explain a few situs where I was not happy with the workmanship.
(I’m twice a former Ducati shop owner and parts maker for same exporting my own).

Would you call these fretting? I don’t think so...

1. I took my Dream* to a Honda Retail Dealer in Chiang Mai as the caliper kept binding to the disc.
When I came back to pick it up I asked if they had fixed it. My GF translated for
the mechanic who said...”a bit but I dont know whats wrong with it”.

I then walked closer to the bike, and I could then clearly see 4 big smash
marks on the fork stanchion and 2 big smash marks on the caliper.
I looked to my right & on the floor near my bike was an 18” long handle
large ball hammer. It was totally clear what that hammer had been used for.

This happened in a real well known Chiang Mai Honda Dealer.
This was endangering peoples lives. Most clients would have no idea.
If you think thats fretting, ask yourself your reaction if it was your bike.

Realise if you hit the stanchion hard enough, it will fracture.
That's a potential death trap, especially if you ride the bike hard
and fast in the hills. I do. Its fun to keep up with bigger bikes
on a Dream 125 with disc front & sticky tyres.

So, I took the bike home, and bought brand new forks which were
surprisingly cheap. I changed the forks & fixed the brakes. Myself.

*For those who say Dreams do not have disc brake. Mine does. All built with brand new Genuine Honda Wave parts.
Triple clamp, forks, hub, rim spokes master cylinder brake line and 2P caliber, even front guard.
It looks like it was built that way, save a cutaway for the MC Reservior which cannot fit under handlebar body.

2. I rode that same Dream all over South Thailand from east to West. North to South. Phuket, Krabi,
Ranong, Surat, Kho Phang Gan, Chumphon, Ban Saphan nearly to PKK Beach, also Nakhon
Si, Songkla, Malaysian Border towns, Satun, you name it. I’ve had some fantastic Ducatis'
but in many ways Dream is the best bike I’ve ever had.

So on one of these trips I go to a Honda Dealer for an oil change. The mechanic tells a boy to do
it, who then arrives at my bike with a drain tray, & a 1/2” socket driver that was 1.2 metres long.
To do a Dream oil change? I thanked him and left immediately with oil un-changed. Wouldn’t you?
Imagine him tightening the sump plug....Thats not fretting. Its avoiding disaster 600km from home.

3. I went to a genuine Honda Dealer Workshop in Phuket with same bike for a new speedo cable.
They said come back in an hour. I came back and the cable they put on was so long it was curled
around the front wheel on one side next to spokes 4 times, like a watch spring. I asked why? through my GF.
They said we save you money, its mechanics old cable just 100 baht. I said take it off (through
my GF). Take it off. I asked my GF if they did not I would photo it and send photo to Honda Japan.

These situs are not fretting. This workmanship endangers peoples lives.
Worst of all...Most clients would have no idea as they ride their butchered bike away.
 

Biggles

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Dear Biggles,

Most of our rides only require one night away from home. OK no if one, say, has a dog but if not it should be feasible. We often or usually alternate between North and south (of the North0 and not all people attend both. From my experience not many talk about topics on the forum, it is more just pub banter. But as you say it is easier to judge the mood of the participants.

I look forward to seeing you soon.
If you have tried to build a house in TH you would know that it requires constant involvement. Failure to do so = Not getting what you designed, agreed to and paid for, plus all kinds of things, mainly shortcuts by cubbies, which will cause one nightmares for years to come. I’ll tell you a few funny stories about it one day. Example. The house on plan is 30-40cm off ground, when I went to check formwork it was built on ground. Luckily they had not poured the CC. Thats just the start. Theres plenty more, like its floorplan measurements are not as per plan, way off actually. Thats because I had agreed to let the builder use his mate as the building supervisor. That ‘mate' not allowed near it now, and never will be. Theres plenty more...
 

Biggles

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Here is a photo of the wheel I originally described that was badly laced. Look closely and you can see that the spokes are not long enough to thread into the nipples properly, leaving about 4mm of thread totally exposed, with the wheel built and finished. You can also see the nipples are not in a straight line with the spokes. This is because the undrilled rim I had bought was drilled at the incorrect angle, (so nipples cannot engage straight to the spokes.

Now, after a great deal of thought and running the reality & pics past Farang & TH mechanics we've reached agreement that what I describe above is all fair and reasonable, due to.... 1. Drilling holes at wrong angle. Realise also...See Below.
Bad Spoke Lacing in CM..jpg
. 2. The These spokes and nipples are original with that hub & its original 17” x 3” Rim. But I changed rim, to a 2.15” x 17” which has a different hole height face. If you look at the 2.15” x 17” rim in photo, the spoke face as a profile is a large curve. But the original rim is a 17” x 3” Rim, and like most 3” wide & up big bike / Motard style alloy rims has a step up from each side of rim to a higher flat area for the spoke holes. This means left and right of rim profile is on same level, and centre of rim profile is higher. I think they do this to increase strength of bigger wider wheels, and do the curve style profile for dirt bike wheels which are often say. 1.6-2.15” in 18/21” diameters. Now, as spoke pattern, spokes and hub are unchanged, and the only change variable is the rim, this proves the spoke holes in new rim are further away from the hub, thus the original spokes are not long enough. So where to now? Well as we all know in TH (even though their drilling has ruined the Racing Boy RCB THB 1600 rim for my needs), their facing the wheel together has not done the spoke threads any big favour, and they should have called me to say "spokes are not long enough what do you want to do?"... Regardless its best to do as Frank Zappa once said. Don’t make a fuss, just get on the bus and move on....So now we’ll buy another RCB rim of same spec, and make sure we have correct length quality spokes, & we have a new place to do it. I really hope they can drill and build it right, otherwise I’ll have to watch enough YouTube videos to do it myself. I’ve only found one video on getting angle of hole in rim correct, and that was a YouTube Video on bicycle rims, which are similar in many ways. This is a video on an antique machine built with an index to drill the number of holes you want at the angle you want, all perfectly spaced. An amazing machine. Here is a link to that video.


Look forward to meeting you MikeRust
 

Biggles

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MikeRust

Now you have seen my wheel build dilemma, can you see this aint an unrealistic and
overly fussy expat ‘fretting’. I have shown the wheel to both TH & Farang mechanics
I trust, and all say its just plain old simple bad rough workmanship & unacceptable.

We know if I keep an eye on it, its not going to kill anyone fast, but on the other
hand, if the rest of ones bike is dead straight with lots of nice hand built tricks &
is super well maintained at home, with great tyres & totally new design hand
fitted comfy seat, with underslung exhaust soon to come after house is built, how
happy would you be with such a custom built wheel on your fave bike.
 

mikerust

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^ Never looked that closely in Indo. But maybe the wheel I bought came with spokes.

House building YES. That is why my wife chose a pre-built house. She had heard too many stories.
 

DKT Dave

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House building is a horrible experience, especially if you are reliant on translation through your wife.....a world of pain that goes on and on!
 

Biggles

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^ Never looked that closely in Indo. But maybe the wheel I bought came with spokes.

House building YES. That is why my wife chose a pre-built house. She had heard too many stories.
Yes I understand your wife. She is a smart woman.