Bikes and Bio Fuel

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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HI Peter

Yes I Think you are right. I later found out that the English world for tenn is tin. Of course I am not sure if it was pure tin or a mix, probably a mix. Yes they uses rods of the stufff that are melted on the heated pure metal and then left, as an cover. The stuff has the ability to go into all the small holes created by the rust. It is dammed difficult to do in proper manner, either it is too hot and the stuff runs away or it is too cold and the stuff is sticked to the wrong place. I used to use an old and old fashioned car body repair man, you know those who still can make a front fender from a sheet of metal, only by using different hammers and some heavy, different shaped metal pieces to hammer on. It takes time but any shaped fenders can be made. These guys also used to make the surface even by using tin, nowadays they just use thick primers to do the job. No genuine hand craft any more.

HIKO
 

Rhodie

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Mar 5, 2006
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HIKO wrote:
It is quite strange that people are so scare of trying Gasohol and this must be the result of all the rumors and myths that have surfaced causing confusion among the consumers,
HIKO
:D
Hiko

I am indebted by your perseverance in putting to bed these "myths".
I, for one, believed the hearsay that gasohol was bad and if 95 was unavailable it was better to use 91.

Well I have just had a fuel injector on my GS12 die after 22K kms.
Both the the manager of Barcelona and others were surprised when told of my peculiar fueling choices.
Though they are somewhat at a loss as to why the injector died.

I believe you are spot on in myth busting many riders' fears.

The next canard you may want to shoot, is the belief that you don't get the same mileage from gasahol as you do from regular benzine.

I appreciate the time, effort, patience & persistence in posting some truly valuable facts!

Your explanation have been of invaluable service to us all.
Thank you.

Rhodie
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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Ian.

Sorry Ian, now that Gasohol has got an own forum I couldn’t leave out the critics against your two “Aussi influenced” posts on this thread earlier, especially since I got so good feedback from Rhodie (thanks)

When reading your first post I thought it was an Aussie joke but when Monsterman started to use your post as a reference, somebody praised your second post I started to think that maybe I have to respond to your posts.

First of all I only try to “demystify” Gasohol and present the facts. To much of the Gasohol discussion is about “feelings and I’ve heard” and despite that your humoristic posts do have some deep believes and feelings behind I must say that your posts belong to this group.

Your first sentence I don’t understand so I will not comment on it. Then you say that Gasohol is shit. Then you either drink shit or drive shit because Gasohol is alcohol and gasoline.,… Gasohol has been tried but not failed. That information is wrong. All over the world Gasohol or other Ethanol blends are used and the use is increasing heavily. Just as an example there are already more than 1000 stations for E85 in USA and it is assumed to double every year. In Thailand E85 is also expanding rapidly as is the E20 and Gasohol sales. I can quote Shell Thailand: Shell plans to start selling E20 in the second quarter due to strong growth in market demand, and brisk sales of E10. Shell's premium E10 has been replacing as much as 65% of total premium petrol sales and the figure is expected to rise to 80% in the next three months

In Europe ethanol/gasoline blends have been sold a long time often without people knowing it. Ethanol has been replacing MTBE as octane booster at rapidly increasing rate the closer the date that MTBE will be forbidden comes. In northern Europe ethanol has been mixed into gasoline especially in the winter time when you must take the water out of your fuel system. In Sweden where E85 has been available for a long time they have introduced flexible fuel meters at the petrol stations. The customer can himself choose how much ethanol he want to mix with the gasoline, everything from 0% to 85%.. Just put the letters Gasohol and google and you will see that by far the most information you get is Pro Gasohol.

Scientific Research has Proven it is Environmentally Less Damaging and More Economical than Normal Fuel. From were you take your information? Maybe from Monsterman….There are many, many researches made about the Environmental effects of using ethanol as fuel instead of gasoline. All the researches show that the effects overall are positive. Some specific unwanted particles in the emission may rise under certain circumstances when using ethanol but it doesn’t change the overall picture. When you look at the economics of using ethanol, taking into account the total cost of producing ethanol you may get some mixed result. Most of them are the result of an ineffective price system. To much government involvement in agriculture prevents the true market mechanism to work. Another reason is that the some calculations use figures from “old” ethanol production. They forget that the production processes of ethanol make huge progress every day. Both the amount of water needed as well as the energy needed has diminished at a very fast track. Also there have been created many new means of how to use the other byproducts of the ethanol manufacturing in an economical way.. Just google and you will find the correct information.

And then we have that old story that ethanol is the cause of the food shortage and high prices of rood. Strange that ethanol is not blamed for the bad weather also…. My advice is the same google and read. You will find articles, writings and researches backing both opinions. But I think that when you look a little closer into you will find that those writings that don’t blame ethanol for food shortages are the most intellectual and best backed up by data. For clever answers by a clever man read: http://seekingalpha.com/article/29035-ethanol-a-few-myths-debunked
You have to remember that ethanol can be manufactured from many other raw material actually all biomasses. In USA they just opened an cellulose-ethanol factory that uses what is left from the sugar canvases after the sugar is taken away. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/celulose-cellulosic-ethanol-plant-verenium.phpSo it is not corn and ethanol against food it is a much broader spectrum of alternatives. It just happens to be that corn and sugar cane are damned good raw materials for ethanol as we all know… (Vodka and Rhum ) and I’m sure you don’t have any bad feelings that you are causing the food shortage when you have a few drinks.
The plantations are not owned by politicians in Thailand but by rich people. People like Dhanin Chearavanont, CEO and owner of CP Group one of Thailand’s biggest company, dominating the Thai food business. He believes strongly in the ethanol business and have been investing a long time in it. Just happens that today’s ( a week ago) Bankok Post have an article about CP and the Ethanol business. Khun Dhanin is also a very clever man so it maybe good to read his thoughts here: <a href=""http://www.cpthailand.com/CorporateCommunications/pageNewsroom/tabid/107/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/91/Default.aspx
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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Ian.

Sorry Ian, now that Gasohol has got an own forum I couldn’t leave out the critics against your two “Aussi influenced” posts on this thread earlier, especially since I got so good feedback from Rhodie (thanks)

When reading your first post I thought it was an Aussie joke but when Monsterman started to use your post as a reference, somebody praised your second post I started to think that maybe I have to respond to your posts.

First of all I only try to “demystify” Gasohol and present the facts. To much of the Gasohol discussion is about “feelings and I’ve heard” and despite that your humoristic posts do have some deep believes and feelings behind I must say that your posts belong to this group.

Your first sentence I don’t understand so I will not comment on it. Then you say that Gasohol is shit. Then you either drink shit or drive shit because Gasohol is alcohol and gasoline.,… Gasohol has been tried and failed. That information is wrong. All over the world Gasohol or other Ethanol blends are used and the use is increasing heavily. Just as an example there are already more than 1000 stations for E85 in USA and it is assumed to double every year. In Thailand E85 is also expanding rapidly as is the E20 and Gasohol sales. I can quote Shell Thailand: Shell plans to start selling E20 in the second quarter due to strong growth in market demand, and brisk sales of E10. Shell's premium E10 has been replacing as much as 65% of total premium petrol sales and the figure is expected to rise to 80% in the next three months

In Europe ethanol/gasoline blends have been sold a long time often without people knowing it. Ethanol has been replacing MTBE as octane booster at rapidly increasing rate the closer the date that MTBE will be forbidden comes. In northern Europe ethanol has been mixed into gasoline especially in the winter time when you must take the water out of your fuel system. In Sweden where E85 has been available for a long time they have introduced flexible fuel meters at the petrol stations. The customer can himself choose how much ethanol he want to mix with the gasoline, everything from 0% to 85%.. Just put the letters Gasohol and google and you will see that by far the most information you get is Pro Gasohol.

Scientific Research has Proven it is Environmentally More Damaging and Less Economical than Normal Fuel. From were you take your information? Maybe from Monsterman….There are many, many researches made about the Environmental effects of using ethanol as fuel instead of gasoline. All the researches show that the effects overall are positive. Some specific unwanted particles in the emission may rise under certain circumstances when using ethanol but it doesn’t change the overall picture. When you look at the economics of using ethanol, taking into account the total cost of producing ethanol you may get some mixed result. Most of them are the result of an ineffective price system. To much government involvement in agriculture prevents the true market mechanism to work. Another reason is that the some calculations use figures from “old” ethanol production. They forget that the production processes of ethanol make huge progress every day. Both the amount of water needed as well as the energy needed has diminished at a very fast track. Also there have been created many new means of how to use the other byproducts of the ethanol manufacturing in an economical way.. Just google and you will find the correct information.

HIKO continue
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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And then we have that old story that ethanol is the cause of the food shortage and high prices of rood. Strange that ethanol is not blamed for the bad weather also…. My advice is the same google and read. You will find articles, writings and researches backing both opinions. But I think that when you look a little closer into you will find that those writings that don’t blame ethanol for food shortages are the most intellectual and best backed up by data. For clever answers by a clever man read:

You have to remember that ethanol can be manufactured from many other raw material actually all biomasses. In USA they just opened an cellulose-ethanol factory that uses what is left from the sugar canvases after the sugar is taken away.

So it is not corn and ethanol against food it is a much broader spectrum of alternatives. It just happens to be that corn and sugar cane are damned good raw materials for ethanol as we all know… (Vodka and Rhum ) and I’m sure you don’t have any bad feelings that you are causing the food shortage when you have a few drinks.
The plantations are not owned by politicians in Thailand but by rich people. People like Dhanin Chearavanont, CEO and owner of CP Group one of Thailand’s biggest company, dominating the Thai food business. He believes strongly in the ethanol business and have been investing a long time in it. Just happens that today’s ( a week ago) Bankok Post have an article about CP and the Ethanol business. Khun Dhanin is also a very clever man so it maybe good to read his thoughts here:
http://www.cpthailand.com/CorporateCommunications/pageNewsroom/tabid/107/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/91/Default.aspx
So the gasohol business is not run by politicians, but by people like Khun Dhanin and his a likes but for sure these people have strong political influence.

And then you started it all over again, 91 is better, the bikes doesn’t work on Gasohol loose power (not correct) worse mileage (correct but only marginal difference.) but you forgot to tell that the tires wear out more quickly when you use gasohol….Life is terrible but give me one drink more Cheers Ian!! But it doesn’t help how much you complain the Gasohol is here to stay so why you don’t take it as a man? The pure gasoline will not come back. And now your last Bastion of pure 95 gave up….One drink more Cheers Ian.

HIKO continue
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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And then you take your old mate Gus to your rescue. First of all Gus’s opinions are not facts, they are just opinions. There is a big difference.

Yes Gus has a good point in that we should use the diesel price as an indicator. All our basic commodities are very much diesel influenced, especially in a country like Australia with 300 km betweens the pubs. But it is not a new idea. Many economists share his ideas especially those who favors government subsidies in the economy. I do not, but it’s a good idea anyhow.

Then your Mate Guss start to behave like a self appointed priest in a closed community in the mid west of USA
Hallelujah, only I know the path to go, Government and the rest of the Judas’ of the oil companies are only out to rip us off.

I own a small transport company and I have had to significantly raise my prices twice in the past year just to maintain profit margins. This cost you money too. Owning a transport company doesn’t make you an expert of National Fuel Questions, even if you have to increase the prices twice.

I am compelled to write this letter because I am sick of all the namby-pamby pussyfooting around everyone seems to be doing about the current fuel debate. Sorry to ask what does this mean. I have spent considerable time researching this area because it affects my income. Yes this is a good thing but I think the problem is very complex and I think it is difficult for a truck driver to make any big conclusion only by doing some desk research. There are many, much clever people than you and me, doing research for decades.

0Contained herein is the WHOLE truth about the debate, the WHOLE big picture, if you will. NO-ONE till now has had the testicular fortitude to stick their necks out and present the WHOLE argument about just how much we are being RIPPED OFF. If you want the TRUTH and the WHOLE TRUTH read on.
DON’T – Listen to spin doctors from the oil companies. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – Listen to the government – state or federal. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – pay too much attention to news or current affairs programs. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.
So here we go, how to make fuel cheaper!


So here we go, hallelujah.

FIRSTLY – DISBAND FUEL PARITY
Parity, for those that don’t know, is government sanctioned price fixing (simple as that). Parity allows fuel companies to sell their products for the highest current price they find in the Asia Pacific region. It completely disregards supply and demand economics and eliminates any need for competition amongst them selves.


Without being an expert on oil price setting in Australia I assume that it is a mechanism to set the Australian prices at an international level. Setting the price only based on, Australian supply/demand figures would be dangerous because in the long run Aussis will have the oil also from the international market. Probably Singapore being a key figure in the international market can supply reliable figures for the Asia Pacific Region. No, it does not disregard supply and demand, neither does it eliminate competition. The Singapore spot market for oil is very, very competitive.

Don’t believe me? Just look at the price of Diesel. If you remember growing up when Diesel was always 10-15c p/l cheaper than Petrol you might understand this more.
How can a product that costs far less to produce (partially a by-product of producing Unleaded as well) and a product that Australia uses more of than any other fuel be MORE EXPENSIVE than Unleaded? Simple, ring Singapore, where they don’t use a lot of Diesel and import all their fuel, find out how much it’s selling for there and charge the same here – sound fair? NOT!


Oh, Yes Fair. The price of Diesel have nothing or at least very marginally to do with the local Singapore demand and supply. It is the international demand and supply that is attached to the huge Singaporean Oil Refinery Industry that sets the price and then you have to live with it as the rest of the world. The demand for diesel has increased very much during the last few years, partly because of the increase of diesel passenger cars in the world. So when demand goes up and supply not the price goes up, also in the outback of Australia. Yes, you can call diesel a by-product if you want. It is derived from crude oil at lower temperature than Gasoline. But Diesel Oil is as important as gasoline for the refinery and it has its price tag that changes all the time. If the price of Diesel goes up because of a demand increase the production process changes so that they can “twist” out more diesel from the crude at the cost of Gasoline. That causes the cost of Diesel to rise because that little extra that we “twisted’ out could have been Gasoline. This process of optimizing the production process is an ever ongoing process were all factors have prices and alternative prices. It may be a temporary situation that diesel is more expensive than Gasoline or it may be a stable one.

Anyhow what the price difference was during “the good old days” have nothing to do with the future. Price relations are not stable and fixed by Good, Thanks Good!!!

Any other industry who tried this one would be hauled of to the High Court quick smart and prosecuted for price fixing! Oh but hang on, our government ALLOWS them to do this


No price fixing is totally something else. For ex. When two small transport companies agree on a same fixed price on a route. Sounds familiarly?? I assume the High Court is not the right forum for cases like this and I assume High Court never is quick smart but slow and wise.

NUMBER TWO – BARRELL PRICE
That price the news loves to show us each night is the PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price. Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%. The cost of production per litre produced here is cheaper than that of imported fuel, but in no way is this factored into the pump price, because they don’t need to (SEE PARITY ABOVE) we pay a pump price based on PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price the same as if we imported all of it, say somewhere like Singapore! Starting to get the picture?

Oh Yes I Got the Picture. You want to turn Australia into a subvention based protective country. Because Australia can produce probably all raw materials cheaper than any other country except Russia all these base raw materials must be sold in Australia at a cheaper price based on production cost. This will lead to cheaper food and everything else where raw materials are dominant. The surplus what we not need we export to other countries preferable on barter trade, for ex we sell copper to Cuba and get sugar instead. All trade connections and raw material companies will be taken over by Government in order to prevent private companies to export Australia’s cheap raw materials at a huge profit. All cultural and sports connections are handled by Government agencies who recommend us to quite the World Cup Fotball events and concentrate our efforts on our two Main Series. One professional were everything to stimulate your body is allowed (we could import some of the last, still living DDR Sport Doctors) and one more amateur series. In cricket we are only left with one annual Test Cricket Contest against Zimbawe the game being overseen by MR. Mugabe in person. Mr Mugabe is the guarantee for a Fair Game. Our oil import is handled by Iran and Venezuela and we barter trade the oil against uran. The manufacturing of trucks in Australia changes also radically after the withdrawal of US-Swedish expertise. The manufacturing is now overseen by experts from the Russian Truck Company Kamaz, Their first step was to unify the colors scheme since it is much cheaper to manufacture only one color. Grey was chosen for the next decennium. Also the Trucking industry changed. All routes were overtaken by a party controlled kolhos. The routes were then awarded according to how long the drivers have had a party book. The cars were government owned and all were grey…. Is that really what you want???

While others former socialist countries are striving to get rid of all subventions you want to reintroduce them into Australia to help truckers help their customers….The Soviet Union tried it for 50 years now we know the result…

NUMBER THREE – LEVIES
Everyone knows that both State and Federal Governments take a large slice of the cost of a litre of fuel. This equates in total to about 46% of the price per litre.


Here you have a point if this is correct. In most country the tax (or taxes) are at least partly percentage taxes and this is a thing that should be changed into an inflation corrected lump sum tax (flat rate tied to the GDP) A change to this as such would of course not cause the fuel price to go down as you say. It will work only when prices goes up (or down and consumer looses) Anyhow I don’t think you can find any Government that is happy when oil prices go up. The other effects are causing much more pain for the Government than the increased gas tax revenues brings joy.

NUMBER FOUR – GST - THE DOUBLE DIPP

Here again you may have a point but not a “new” one. It has been discussed in academic circles (maybe you missed it when you made your desk research) of the morality of tax to tax, especially when it comes to sales taxes. The problem is partially avoided when you have a value added sales tax system. Since most advanced countries have it I assume that Australia have it also. So when you pay the gasoline, you actually only pay the sales tax on the profit the gasoline man made on your sales. And so it goes all the way down the distribution chain, everybody only paying sales tax on the “value” or “profit” incurred by each stage of the distribution chain. For you to easier understand your receipt should say: Paid for products 100c, Paid retailers profit 10c, Paid tax 0,9c Total 110,9c
If You have a straight sales tax in Australia the problem is a little different but your “ideas” don’t add anything new. By lowering the sales tax, diesel prices goes down. Correct.

You do the math.

Yes you do your math. Some place you have 9% tax some place 10%. Why should the GST be 5,4% no verbal or mathematical argument. Yes lowering sales tax will lower diesel price. Is this your message , is this Your Whole TRUTH?

And Ian what was your message except that everything is Shit.

HIKO
 

Rhodie

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Mar 5, 2006
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*ugger me Hiko
That must have taken a huge chunk out of your day.

I for one hugely appreciate you giving us of your time & experience.

Especially now that I know I can, indeed should, use 95 gasahol.

However, I'm still more than a little confused tho to the different kinds of new fuels,
and what their content means for us riders/drivers.

Is there a site you can recommend for us luddites?

or, if you have the time & the inclination....

:lol:

Cheers
Rhodie
 

DavidFL

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Yes I think Hiko excelled himself there alright. Got a lot off his chest plus helped the brewery stay out of the red.
Good on you Hiko. Keep coming. There won't be any "urban myths" with you on the GT Rider board to keep us honest.
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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HIKO wrote: And then we have that old story that ethanol is the cause of the food shortage and high prices of rood. Strange that ethanol is not blamed for the bad weather also…. My advice is the same google and read. You will find articles, writings and researches backing both opinions. But I think that when you look a little closer into you will find that those writings that don’t blame ethanol for food shortages are the most intellectual and best backed up by data. For clever answers by a clever man read:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/29035-ethanol-a-few-myths-debunked
You have to remember that ethanol can be manufactured from many other raw material actually all biomasses. In USA they just opened an cellulose-ethanol factory that uses what is left from the sugar canvases after the sugar is taken away.

So it is not corn and ethanol against food it is a much broader spectrum of alternatives. It just happens to be that corn and sugar cane are damned good raw materials for ethanol as we all know… (Vodka and Rhum ) and I’m sure you don’t have any bad feelings that you are causing the food shortage when you have a few drinks.
The plantations are not owned by politicians in Thailand but by rich people. People like Dhanin Chearavanont, CEO and owner of CP Group one of Thailand’s biggest company, dominating the Thai food business. He believes strongly in the ethanol business and have been investing a long time in it. Just happens that today’s ( a week ago) Bankok Post have an article about CP and the Ethanol business. Khun Dhanin is also a very clever man so it maybe good to read his thoughts here:
http://www.cpthailand.com/CorporateCommunications/pageNewsroom/tabid/107/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/91/Default.aspx
So the gasohol business is not run by politicians, but by people like Khun Dhanin and his a likes but for sure these people have strong political influence.

And then you started it all over again, 91 is better, the bikes doesn’t work on Gasohol loose power (not correct) worse mileage (correct but only marginal difference.) but you forgot to tell that the tires wear out more quickly when you use gasohol….Life is terrible but give me one drink more Cheers Ian!! But it doesn’t help how much you complain the Gasohol is here to stay so why you don’t take it as a man? The pure gasoline will not come back. And now your last Bastion of pure 95 gave up….One drink more Cheers Ian.

HIKO continue
 
Jul 18, 2007
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I spoke today with K. Nattasak Thonginnetr, Motorcycle Manager of Barcelona BMW. He speaks excellent English and was very helpful.

With regard to the question of what to use in the R1150GS, he indicated that Gasohol 95 is perfectly OK for the GS.

He warned, however, that in Thailand there are two varieties of 95 Gasohol being sold - E10 and E20. The E10 is OK to use, the E20 is not.

He said that usually an E20 pump will have some indicator. I was curious as to whether they are both sold at the orange-colored pump - he was not sure, but indicated that one should ask before filling.

I'm not altogether sure that the average pump attendant will him or herself know, but it's a start.

Thanks to all who have helped on this one, HIKO in particular.

S.
 

HIKO

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Nov 7, 2005
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HI

The Barcelona Guy is wrong and this again show us how bad the information is about Gasohol and other ethyl alcohol blended gasolines.

Gasohol is a brand name reserved for E10 fuel. E10 fuel is 10% ethyl alcohol and 90% gasoline. So speaking of 10% Gasohol is correct but not 20% Gasohol, the correct name for the later is 20% alcohol blended Fuel. We also have E85 at some petrol stations only for special build cars, 85% ethyl alcohol and 15% Gasoline.

Hopefully the petrol stations are well informed.....

HIKO
 
Jul 18, 2007
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HIKO wrote: HI

The Barcelona Guy is wrong and this again show us how bad the information is about Gasohol and other ethyl alcohol blended gasolines.

Gasohol is a brand name reserved for E10 fuel. E10 fuel is 10% ethyl alcohol and 90% gasoline. So speaking of 10% Gasohol is correct but not 20% Gasohol, the correct name for the later is 20% alcohol blended Fuel. We also have E85 at some petrol stations only for special build cars, 85% ethyl alcohol and 15% Gasoline.

Hopefully the petrol stations are well informed.....

HIKO
Actually, HIKO, I think the odds are better that I have unintentionally mis-represented what he said than that he is wrong.

Until reading this post of yours, I thought that "gasohol" was a generic term describing any fuel mixture of gasoline and alcohol, with the "E" designations representing the percentage of alcohol in the mix.

If I combine what you have just said with your recent information on octane, would it be correct to deduce that:

* there is 95RON 100% gasoline
* there is 95RON E10 gasohol with a 90 gasoline/10 alcohol mix
* there is (or could be) 95RON E20 alcohol blended fuel with an 80/20 mix
* there is 91RON 100% gasoline
* there is 91RON E10 gasohol with 90/10 mix
* there is ??RON E85 alcohol blended fuel with a 15/85 mix.

If that is a more correct representation of the situation, then I think HE said that 95RON 100% gasoline and 95RON E10 gasohol are OK, but the others are not.

God, I remember the happy times when you could pull in and just say:

"Fill 'er up."

I still don't know whether 95RON E10 gasohol and 95RON E20 alcohol blended fuel would both be sold with the orange color code... If we can crack that one, it'll enable me to slink back into the shadows of this unnecessarily (IMHO) obfuscated issue.

One more volley, HIKO?

Cheers,

S.

If we
 
Oct 17, 2006
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Hiko is correct about tax and fuels ..in the UK Diesel is now 5% more expensive than Gasoline and this is caused by ripoff government taxation.
it is causing a skewing of the fuel markets for truckers as EU truckers pay much less for diesel so causing unfair competition in the long distance haulage industry.and confusion for adopters of diesel. cars
 
Nov 11, 2006
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I don't give a stuff about the arguments for or against gasohol. As I don't live in a socialist or communist country,only a monarchical/military dictatorship, as a consumer I demand a CHOICE.
In every civilised country that I have lived in or visited I HAVE A CHOICE.
In Thailand those who choose not to use gasohol for whatever reasons will have NO CHOICE.
For those proponents of gasohol,as from tomorrow any new bike you want to buy WILL ONLY BE A HONDA DREAM.
YOU WILL HAVE NO CHOICE AND YOU WILL AND MUST LIKE IT AND ACCEPT IT, or walk!
It's what the government says is best for you. And they must be right. Just as they are right to provide consumers with only what they tell us we must have.
 
Nov 11, 2006
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My inference being that Thailand is not civilised or logical but as a consumer I still demand a choice.
If I want to buy gasohol that's my choice. If I want to pay 3 baht less per litre but use more,that's my choice.
In this situation we will have no choice as to what we buy. Those who like and accept that let them only buy Honda Dreams.
 
Oct 17, 2006
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A world bank report issued on friday and published in many Uk papers states that Biofuels have contributed to a 75% increase in world food prices.

there is now a serious concern that biofuels may be contributing to rising food prices and shortages and causing massive enviromental damage as forests are destroyed to increase production.

All gasoline sold in UK since may has 2.5% ethanol in it .