Re-mapping towns on the Mae Hong Son Loop

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
It's time to update the GT Rider Mae Hong Son loop map for the 4th edition.

A few snaps from Friday 7th - Thursday 13th August 2009.

The way: the Mae Hong Son loop in a clockwise direction. Chiang Mai - Mae Sarieng - Khun Yuam - Mae Hong Son - Pangmapha - Pai - Mae Taeng - Chiang Mai.

The weather Chiang Mai - Mae Sarieng was wet 'n greasy.
As this truckie found out
623185026_iiyEW-S.jpg


Not quite sure how he did this going uphill
623185611_gEqBC-S.jpg


The driver, uninjured & still able to smile for the farang
623185448_6LrSz-S.jpg


The road seemed to be deserted in the miserable conditions, but I had no sooner stopped when I was almost involved in an accident with a herd of cattle plus an EGAT truck all arriving on the scene at once.
623185758_Zym9B-S.jpg


623185927_YGXE2-S.jpg


623186106_emM5K-S.jpg


The GT Rider webmaster was in Mae Sarieng setting up his new house & office for Asian Angling Adventures.
http://www.asian-angling-adventures.com/

Moto-Rex also rode down from his new love - Mae Hong Son city - for the night to link up with the Kiwi Cruiser & I.
We tasted a nice happy hour at the Riverhouse Resort & continued on with dinner at the Krua Gan Eng upstream. The KGE has live music, one of the very few in Mae Sarieng, plus an interesting menu with Dringks.
623186185_JkdnY-S.jpg

The highlight of the evening was the chicken coconut milk soup, which came out of the kitchen as a tom yam - twice - & was promptly sent back twice, never to reappear amongst the cultural misunderstanding confusion. However we are sure it was still on the bill at the end of the night, however we'd had such a good time with the owner & staff that we did not protest, but went with the flow. We will be back & want to be welcomed back.

Cruising the Mae Sarieng city rural back roads, some of the views & scenery was very beautiful.
623186256_qxe4N-S.jpg


623188438_UqAaC-S.jpg


Wat Chomthong is on a hill S-E of town off R105 the Mae Sarieng - Mae Sot road & has nice views of Mae Sarieng city & environs, even in the wet.
623186372_vzoXz-S.jpg


623188539_CFurJ-S.jpg
623188660_QMZSX-S.jpg


623188874_ePgp2-S.jpg

623188740_2xfpA-S.jpg


623186518_shhAt-S.jpg


623186746_YU2AF-S.jpg


623186654_MFmfX-S.jpg


Mae Sarieng has a smart & beautiful cultural information at the entrance to town, but it's poor, grubby & almost useless info wise.
623187061_3Kz9Q-S.jpg


There are 28 waypoint / deletions / changes / additions coming to the new MS city map.

R108 North of Mae Sarieng is generally in perfect condition, except for the new 300 metre shortcut they made through one hill to cut off a long steep tight bend.
623187238_HFGR3-S.jpg

Methinks someone cheated on the road works contract.

623189054_S4hun-S.jpg
623188946_XGuVB-S.jpg


Indeed it was another wet 'n greasy ride from Mae Sarieng to Mae Hong Son, but I survived, despite not leaving MS until 4PM & arriving in MHS in low light at 7PM.

The delightful but wet 'n misty viewpoint south of Mae Hong Son
623187388_wa6ov-S.jpg

623187543_Da6nT-S.jpg


In Mae Hong Son you could be forgiven for thinking that the Piya Guesthouse was closed
623187827_kD7yt-S.jpg

623187686_AsdZU-S.jpg

but it is actually open for business as usual.
According to Piya the renovations were to be complete in 3 weeks = end of the month August.

To be continued..
 

Marco

Ol'Timer
Oct 15, 2006
1,689
5
38
55
Khuang Nai
Nice one dave,

took my magnifying glass out from the shelf again and looked that menyyyy
623186185_JkdnY-S.jpg


I can see they have high quality Chang beer there as well(Yes i know Franz,,,Horse piss :wink: , but you should know Finns,, we drank anything what contains alcohol)
but seriously talking,, why water is 20Thb,, that is almost most of the restaurants in there as down with us, we can get water still 10-15thb per bottle10=Small 15big one, not a big issue as we know, but just an observation.
Water is more to Dougal when he is on the road, or was it Beer,sprite and paper umbrella on his drink,, i cant quite remember.... :wink:
 

Franz

Ol'Timer
Jun 28, 2007
1,660
3
0
David how the he.. did this truck make it up onto the barrier ???? :p Too much Lipo or Grating Daeng I wonder ???? See you now also use one of these handy Givi's on the back though I've seen the mount on the bike already a long time but never the topcase :wink: . Went on a short drive today for F&B at Ian's and coffee in Samoeng, met a lot of riders, especially Vespa's in the hundreds....never new that there are that plenty out there.
Marco of course I know, had to put up with many Finns in Rovaniemi with Absolut, Minttu and Olut..........Peter Dougal and drinking water ?? Yeah maybe in the bathroom..... :oops: . where has HE gone, haven't read too many comments recently. Oh guys I really miss you !! Cheers, Franz
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Franz wrote: David how the he.. did this truck make it up onto the barrier ???? :p Too much Lipo or Grating Daeng I wonder ???? See you now also use one of these handy Givi's on the back though I've seen the mount on the bike already a long time but never the topcase :wink: . Went on a short drive today for F&B at Ian's and coffee in Samoeng, met a lot of riders, especially Vespa's in the hundreds....never new that there are that plenty out there.
Marco of course I know, had to put up with many Finns in Rovaniemi with Absolut, Minttu and Olut..........Peter Dougal and drinking water ?? Yeah maybe in the bathroom..... :oops: . where has HE gone, haven't read too many comments recently. Oh guys I really miss you !! Cheers, Franz
Franz
Honestly dont know how the truck got like that, even after talking to the driver - he says he lost control & had to do that, but it was unclear whether he was going uphill or down! Maybe he was too embarassed to admit the truth. He'd been there for 18 hours - the accident happened the day before - & he was waiting for a tow from someone from Chiang Mai or Nakhon Nowhere. TIT!

Re the Givi box I tend to use this in the wet to protect valuables - maps / documents / computer. But I admit that I don't like it that much because when you load it up it puts too much weight behind the rear axle & makes the AT handle like a pig. A small soft seat bag & soft panniers are the luggage way to go I believe, but the Givi box is damn convenient.
 

Marco

Ol'Timer
Oct 15, 2006
1,689
5
38
55
Khuang Nai
I think he was on the way down as when examinating the photo, found that scrach mark front of the truck, so what "Might" happen is that he lost controll of the truck and truck ran it to barrier and then Clips on it's left and same time as there is so much weight & Movement the front axel jumps over the barrier and twist the truck 90 decrees...Just a thought :wink:

623185026_iiyEW-S.jpg
 

Dougal

Ol'Timer
Dec 18, 2007
535
0
0
Dave,

Great pics as always. Would'nt even like to guess about the truck.

Love that viewoint South of MHS; stop there every time.

Franz, I tend to avoid water after my friend told me what fish do in it.
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Arh yes, the Thai internet has recovered & you can upload photos once more!!

Missed a couple of panorama shots overlooking Mae Sarieng 8th August.
The view from Wat Phrathat Chomthong
627520738_w5AVf-M.jpg


The Mae Yuam river
627519963_Y7Qzq-M.jpg

which according to the Kiwi Cruiser webmaster was up to the bridge on 1st September.

The Mae Hong Son bypass road
627534340_tmpEG-S.jpg


627534401_RnZYF-S.jpg


627534133_w4JcA-S.jpg
627534210_dTUYV-S.jpg


Route 1095 North of Mae Hong Son City
635660429_w7jQW-S.jpg
637429133_VtMzb-S.jpg


627941797_NsU22-S.jpg
627534465_ep32A-S.jpg


Some temples in Mae Hong Son worth a look & photos

Wat Hua Wiang
637430762_A5KXB-S.jpg


637430774_M2MFH-S.jpg
637430788_gbLLj-S.jpg


637438471_hyU2o-S.jpg

637438489_BRPTC-S.jpg

637438508_B7cxL-S.jpg


Wat Panglor
637438533_SavoW-S.jpg

637438552_57aU7-S.jpg


637446413_WSWfC-S.jpg
637446429_9K9uZ-S.jpg

637446532_vjVMi-S.jpg


637446460_zr68j-S.jpg
637446505_emYe7-S.jpg


More coming..
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
MHS Temples continued

Wat Chong Klang
637446590_3cxnF-S.jpg
637446621_9xWLM-S.jpg


637450223_zG6Re-S.jpg

637446653_Qja5j-S.jpg


Coming slow isn't it?
Well I've had both computers out of action the last week, with my main desktop still out of action & that baby has my photos + maps locked up for a few more days probably.
But when it comes back I've got happy snap shots from 2 trips to wack up + a few odd tips from here & there - on the MHS Loop & the GT Loop.

Meanwhile I've afew bit & pieces on my notebook to play around with & post.
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Continued....

11TH AUGUST MAE HONG SON - PANGMAPHA

And the weather was absolutely glorious: R1095 was in perfect photographic condition, so it was time to recover some lost territory on Capt’n Slash (before he gets back here & streaks away from us all in the road photo dept once again). :)
654965141_XQLLK-S.jpg


654965906_nU9Kb-S.jpg
654965532_vojcp-S.jpg


654966712_FNg2c-S.jpg

654966346_eqbSQ-S.jpg


Lahu Luk Kow Larm
654966961_YQjP3-S.jpg


Closer up
654967137_FLYsw-S.jpg

654967336_fmt8T-S.jpg
654967626_rBzJg-S.jpg


Lahu Luk Kow Larm is a favourite of some of the GT Riders to go for Lahu New Year & to donate clothes & school supplies
See

and

The Pang Mapha Viewpoint
654967860_dXFtL-S.jpg


654968042_8oEK4-S.jpg


654968270_jSswo-S.jpg


PANG MAPHA - PAI

On one of the big steep hairpin bends where you don't normally stop for photo just in case another vehicle might stuff up & do your bike & you in. :lol: :lol: But I figured it was my lucky day with such sensational weather & views
654968475_v9AHg-S.jpg


654968714_Ma9rv-S.jpg
654969006_4K6f6-S.jpg


654968869_g67nc-S.jpg


And where is it?
654969189_stXcQ-S.jpg

128 kms out, from......?

Approaching the Kiew Lom viewpoint on the ridgeline between Pang Mapha & Pai.
654969426_G4Hia-S.jpg


654969777_4YstX-S.jpg
654972063_pmZYi-S.jpg


And the famous view of R1095
654970943_aPQhf-S.jpg


Where it's at
654970663_uXYvT-S.jpg

20 kms from Pang Mapha
84 kms from Mae Hong Son

654971441_TzjLd-S.jpg

Doesn't this road photo want to make you just get out & ride R1095 on the Mae Hong Son Loop

654971253_fNRbN-S.jpg
654971748_ygbqp-S.jpg


A sun shower in the distance
654972949_SidaD-S.jpg


654972658_NEMVb-S.jpg
654973308_9Tjmg-S.jpg


Route 1095: nice 'n bendy, sweet & clean.
654973550_WZuBc-S.jpg


Worth a ride any day you might say?
 
Last edited:

feejer

Ol'Timer
Feb 16, 2007
443
1
18
Yep,

The 1095 from MHS to Pai was one of my favorites of the trip. Great conditions, fabulous views, and plenty of curvature. What's not to like?
 

Deano747

Ol'Timer
Subscribed
Aug 24, 2008
200
30
28
What sort of timeframe for edition 4 are you looking at? I assume that it is a fairly involved process.
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Deano747 wrote: What sort of timeframe for edition 4 are you looking at? I assume that it is a fairly involved process.
I'm a month behind schedule (par for the course), but expect the new map to be out on sale in November. :roll: :roll:
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
And so it was after Mae Hong Son -Route 1095 to Soppong / Pangmapha & into Pai boutique city.

:shock: :shock: I managed a mere 400 waypoint changes in Pai. Places closing, moving, changing names, & new ones opening.

The rate of development is incredible, almost like a piranha feeding frenzy & you have to wonder when the bubble is going burst? :cry: :cry:

There really are some incredible new resorts / hotels / guesthouses opening up. And they are getting expensive! :?: :?:

The mauve / pinky Pai Waan was one example: 1,000 baht a night in off-season & no customers. High season 3-4,000 baht a night.
654973760_zWgs2-S.jpg


And here's the view from the Pai Waan situated on the super highway.
654974135_kojww-S.jpg

654974350_37Xik-S.jpg
654974529_pBmpq-S.jpg

Impressive eh. I think not; but then again if you come from the big smoke & Bangkok I guess any fresh mountain air is good.

The PaiCome Hideaway is a mere 5-8,000 baht a night!
654977028_NBBL6-S.jpg

654976787_bASgj-S.jpg

Don’t believe me, then go here
http://www.paicome.com/

The Pai Resort Pageryaw had really cute small bungalows stuck right on top of each other for maximum land utilization (& more warmth in the cold season?)
654980425_RcKpJ-S.jpg


They also had a huge beautiful butterfly resting (from photographers?) in the garden
654980319_3QFw3-S.jpg


Out of town the short trip to Santichum & Nam Hu is well worthwhile.
The way is pretty at the right time of the year
654974800_tBXUK-S.jpg


654975076_7edYE-S.jpg


654975348_TTrot-S.jpg


Wat Nam Hu
654975606_PKfwD-S.jpg


654976344_SP64U-S.jpg


654976152_AzZLt-S.jpg


654976045_xzEHW-S.jpg


Next up the road is the Yunnan Cultural Centre "a Chinese tea drinking place."
654977296_bLPNn-S.jpg


654977661_PyBsN-S.jpg


Then in you're in the Chinese KMT village of Santichum, which has a really steep narrow road leading to a small temple Puttapanya Ram, with some nice views overlooking Pai city.

The grey concrete road up the hill
654978251_vEzXj-S.jpg


A corner
654978414_GfU6F-S.jpg


A view
654978569_rscWu-S.jpg


And another view
654978068_HK9nM-S.jpg


The way back down
654978713_LELHH-S.jpg


From Santichum it’s back to Nam Hu & across to Mo Paeng.
The way once more
654978884_tLXd8-S.jpg

Yep, rain coming
654978999_jY4aZ-S.jpg


Mo Paeng waterfall
654979143_rSWSv-S.jpg

Well it's sort of worth it

Wat Hua Na is on the way back into town, just up from the hospital
654980163_5rPTT-S.jpg


654979609_gX3sG-S.jpg
654979841_CwasM-S.jpg


654979269_xxdHA-S.jpg

The monks could have started their own lawn bowls club the grass was so smooth!

And I'm almost up to date.
 

oldbloke

Ol'Timer
Feb 15, 2009
45
0
0
Davidfl wrote:
I'm a month behind schedule (par for the course), but expect the new map to be out on sale in November. :roll: :roll:
:( Does that mean I'm out of luck, when I arrive in Mid-October and want one?....I'd be happy to be a beta-tester for the new version...:lol:
From the sounds of it, there's been a quite a few updates!!
Nice pic's by the way.....
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Still plodding along. Way behind schedule, more than 2 month's wait for the topo to be done, & the last couple of weeks TWO computer reformats but finally closing in.

Anyone want to run an advert to promote motorcycle touring & / or their business on the MHS Loop please contact me.

Meanwhile last week waiting for a computer reformat I did the loop double checking establishments & forgot to take my camera with me (it was one of those living hell weeks) - I realized 25 kms out & was not going to turn back. So it's only a few lousy happy phone snaps.....

The Navasoung Resort in Mae Chaem has a sauna + a wonderful pool WITH A VIEW.
705035655_Px5hN-M.jpg

Check it out
http://www.navasoungresort.com/

I managed 100 kms checking out developments in the Mae Chaem & overall the place is doing well & IMHO quietly preparing for the Pai overflow & bubble to burst in a couple of years I'd say. I reckon that Mae Chaem will be the place - new Pai - to go to in 3 more high seasons! Watch it happen. Land in Mae Chaem is now 100,000 baht a rai if you can get it. And most of it with title deeds has gone to out of town people speculating on another Pai frenzy.

Mae Chaem has some lovely winding rural back roads / loops through the rolling hills just like Pai. There's a new bridge across the Mae Chaem river immediately north of town. Several temples are well worth visiting

Wat Tha Pa is a beauty
705036108_tZYPD-S.jpg


705036294_GBayU-S.jpg


705036140_DCAfz-S.jpg


705036252_UZ5ze-S.jpg


The temple grounds also double as a school classroom for the young village kids
705036203_iBP2z-S.jpg

and I reckon they've got it good alright!
What a view at school
705036090_KH4Mh-S.jpg


In Mae Chaem the Krua Lai Hin serves up enormous meals,
705036005_BMFUF-S.jpg

fit for a captain..

Moto-Rex filled in as Captain for the night:
705035989_UxtFa-S.jpg

just look at the size of the bowl with the curry in!

Wat Buddha En is a unique temple in Thailand
705036750_79WLA-S.jpg


Wat Pra Buddha En, In Mae Chaem, Chang Kerng sub-district, is a most unusual temple. The buildings are built on an island in the centre of a square, literate block lined pond. This inundated area is called Utokasima, to distinguish it from an earthen temple surround, or Khanthasima, although the meaning is the same. Built at about the start of the Ratanakosin Era, over 200 years ago, this remarkable temple is registered by the Fine Arts Department. Apart from the temple in the pool, there is an old viharn with some fine murals

705036664_KfDG3-S.jpg


705036838_BDhs9-S.jpg


705036626_Gi8LF-S.jpg


There's also a supply of fresh clean water from the temple "spring" that the villagers use for their daily consumption.
705035812_QTZdR-S.jpg


Another find in Mae Chaem was the Tennis & Meteorite Resort
Cute basic bungalows 500 baht a night
705036465_sDhjK-S.jpg


705036345_YstrS-S.jpg


And you've got your own tennis court
705036456_Zj7Ab-S.jpg


705036562_tKqQR-S.jpg


And the meteorite
705036580_93Eve-S.jpg

proudly presented & lovingly cared for by the owner, who is an incredibly amusing & interesting guy. A bit of a nature lover & expert potato grower, he once led the Rak Mae Chaem group to rally against the lignite mine near Mae Na Chon, but a couple of bullets soon convinced him of the error of his ways.

His resort: officially The View Fai Meteorite Tennis Resort.

The meteorite certainly looks real to me & it was found 6 years ago near Mae Chaem in his spud garden! (That's one hell of a potato.) Supposedly it has been scientifically tested & is the real thing.

Up in Mae Hong Son
the lake's been drained, cleaned up & in the process of being deepend.
705035838_DKJ95-M.jpg


(All the fish are in Pha Bong waiting for their return.)

705035800_aDMF7-M.jpg


supposedly with a completion date for the "New Year." Funny isn't it though - it's not Mae Hong Son without water in the lake!

Back down south in Mae Sarieng Beng is back at the Sawadee Restaurant
705035665_9fmF3-S.jpg

and brekky here is pretty damn good
705035752_CwNYC-S.jpg
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
In Mae Hong Son it was Halloween night & I thought - so what? But in the Crossroads Pub it was really rocking with the locals all decked for the night..

706576145_o3AdW-M.jpg


The sensational Miss Nok (owner of Crossroads) on the left.

Later on that night we failed in our attempt to get into The Chalet Pub at the Baiyoke Hotel - no room. The place was jam packed solid with Halloween party goers. Amazing Thailand indeed!
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
One of the cool new loops to do in the Mae Chaem valley is North-east from Mae Chaem to Ban Mae Pang (out near Mae Pang waterfall).

The hills are rolling & the roads narrow steep undulating, with superb views.
Check it out sometime.

706576403_863cX-M.jpg


706576423_QKf2y-M.jpg


706576460_whjG2-M.jpg


706576461_ADgux-M.jpg
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
MAE SARIENG

The Yuam river runs through town basically in a north - south direction. The main part of the town & most of the establishments are on the east side of the river, which is were most people end up staying, eating & drinking.
But at sunset time your view is one straight into the setting sun.

Enter the Tukki Pub & Restaurant:
East side of the bridge
img-6874.jpg


The view downstream
img-6875.jpg


The Tukki Pub & Restaurant
img-6877.jpg


img-6876.jpg


Tukki, owner & cook of Tukki Pub & Restaurant, Mae Sarieng.
img-6880.jpg

(Anyone Loei old hands remember Tukki?)

Tukki also likes GT Rider maps
img-6881.jpg


The Tukki Pub & Restaurant is also one of, if not the last, places to close in MS at night. Check it out at happy hour time by the river.
 

Marco

Ol'Timer
Oct 15, 2006
1,689
5
38
55
Khuang Nai
David,

How was the food like?

you know im so found about all names like now, TUKKI in Finnish mean LOG(Tree log) what they are floating n the down river after harvesting....

any how, looks like a nice place, maybe drop by there while in the town in few weeks
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Marco wrote: David,

How was the food like?

you know im so found about all names like now, TUKKI in Finnish mean LOG(Tree log) what they are floating n the down river after harvesting....

any how, looks like a nice place, maybe drop by there while in the town in few weeks

How was the food?
Arh I only drank & nibbled a bit.
Next time I will endeavour to sample the food as well.
 

Franz

Ol'Timer
Jun 28, 2007
1,660
3
0
David, the Navasoungresort's Pool is worth going there and if only for one night, thanks for this info. Will take Mr. Hiso-Payap there soon. Perfect trip report as always. Cheers, Franz
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
Franz wrote: David, the Navasoungresort's Pool is worth going there and if only for one night, thanks for this info. Will take Mr. Hiso-Payap there soon. Perfect trip report as always. Cheers, Franz
Franz
And there's a sauna right next to the pool! It's an awesome place +you can drink with the Finnish owner - Beer Chang.
Best to ring & book though. They had very heavy bookings for November - December - January when I was last there.
 

DavidFL

Administrator
Staff member
Subscribed
Jan 16, 2003
12,868
3,401
113
67
Chiang Khong
www.thegtrider.com
In Pai I finally went to the Pai Canyon

img-6876_0.jpg


img-6877_0.jpg


And I'd say its worth it. Robert H has an interesting story about riding his Africa Twin right to the top & the viewpoint....

01-panoramapaicanyon.jpg


Wat Sai Khao it also pretty out in the rice paddies
img-6875_0.jpg


The Bueng Pai Fishing Resort is a beauty
01-panoramabuengpaifishing.jpg


And the Mae Yuam River in Mae Sarieng again.
01-panorama-yuam-river.jpg
 

Franz

Ol'Timer
Jun 28, 2007
1,660
3
0
David Unk wrote:
"And there's a sauna right next to the pool! It's an awesome place +you can drink with the Finnish owner - Beer Chang."

What is it with these "Matti Jaekkimaekki's" (a nickname I gave to Marco) only drinking Chang ???? Just was with a Finn, same same, drinking Chang too much and never ending. this then in combination with a Scott ("Jock" I was told) makes me day. Just imagine Dougal & Marco with me on a 30 day ride, will go to liver - cirrhose heaven......55555555, cheers, Fr